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This is a fascinating article. We know that we need to get kids outside more, but aren't able to prioritize that (except in Taiwan). Instead we're trying to fin

This is a fascinating article. We know that we need to get kids outside more, but aren't able to prioritize that (except in Taiwan). Instead we're trying to find ways that let us keep using classrooms and screens the same way. I'm very interested in the increased indoor light therapy (for my own use). I would really like for it to be as bright indoors as it is outdoors, matching the spectrum of the sun, without being horrifically expensive.

bozhark 2y ago
Mirrors
Eric_WVGG 2y ago
A few years ago I heard about a method of using bundles of fiberoptic cable to "pipe" sunlight from a rooftop into rooms. My impression is that it's cheap as hell but impractical. I can't find the article, but this seems to refer to the same idea: https://www.quora.com/Can-fiber-optic-cables-be-used-to-carry-massive-amounts-of-sunlight-to-a-distant-location/answer/Roger-Fentiman https://www.quora.com/Can-fiber-optic-cables-be-used-to-carr...
- FourHand451 2y ago
  You can buy "skylights" that are essentially internally mirrored tubes that accomplish essentially the same thing. I don't believe they're super cheap right now, but I imagine they could be if they became more widely used. I know someone who installed one in their bathroom and have been surprised at how well it works.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    As a building science scholar, I do not recommend skylights or solar tunnels, as they increase the likelihood of roof leaks in the future (as any roof penetration does). Also impairs thermal management due to lack of insulation between the conditioned space and the exterior. I installed a Velux skylight on one of my previous remodels (replacing an existing low quality skylight), and I still regret it versus decking over the void and deleting the tunnel.
    - wholinator2 2y ago
      I'm currently renting. But i just want to add that the skylight in my house is the single best thing about it. I'm in a location which is pretty well shaded on all sides of my house. The windows that i do have are relatively small and do not let in all that much light. My house is permanently dim, great for sleeping, terrible for starting work in the morning. In this scenario, the skylight in my bathroom while i do the morning ready is a godsend. Are there other better solutions? I'm sure there are, but is the prevalence of issues with properly installing skylights much larger than the prevalence of issues with windows?
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        Would a faux skylight led panel serve this purpose? Windows occasionally must withstand driving rain, a roof must withstand falling rain (on whatever cadence your climate dictates, Florida vs California are wildly different environments for example). Broad strokes, water is the enemy and you’re attempting to avoid intrusion whenever possible.
        alright2565 2y ago
        This is a rabbit hole :) In short, no, unless you have tens-of-thousands[1][2] to spend on this panel. Rays of sunlight are parallel, an effect that very difficult to emulate. There are folks who have developed DIY versions, with impressive results[3], but in that case you're trading off way more effort, potentially requiring maintenance, and a lot more space required. [1]: https://www.coelux.com/en/home-page/index https://www.coelux.com/en/home-page/index [2]: https://hometronics.com/about-us/press/item/coelux-the-40000-artificial-skylight-everyone-will-want https://hometronics.com/about-us/press/item/coelux-the-40000... [3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqBsHSwPgw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqBsHSwPgw
        toomuchtodo 2y ago
        I’m talking a $100 LED panel from Home Depot, not a full replacement to create a virtual skylight. Is it the appearance of sky or just the light? The light is easy, seeing sky (real or virtual) is hard. Example: https://www.homedepot.com/p/JONATHAN-Y-2-ft-x-4-ft-Skylight-50-Watt-5500-Lumens-Dimmable-Integrated-LED-Flat-Panel-Light-with-5000K-White-Set-of-2-JYL9805A-SET2/317420265 https://www.homedepot.com/p/JONATHAN-Y-2-ft-x-4-ft-Skylight-...
  - mrec 2y ago
    Yes, I encountered one for the first time in the bathroom of a holiday let and, having no idea what it was, got very confused as to how I was supposed to turn it off. Fortunately we had an experimental nuclear physicist in the party who was able to explain that turning the light off would actually be a very bad idea.
    - thfuran 2y ago
      If we just turned it off for an hour each night, we could solve global warming.
- aidenn0 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_tube https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_tube
aeternum 2y ago
Is it now known that light is the primary mechanism? It's crazy that we still don't know for certain. Being outdoors also often means just looking at things that are further away as well as more eye movement.
- pjerem 2y ago
  Yeah, IIRC, it was in Taiwan or maybe Singapore that they started to see a reverse in the myopia trend in nothing less than one year after having mandated full days outside in school.
  - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
    But that doesn't have to be the light. That could be having to focus on further away objects.
    - aatd86 2y ago
      Probably both equally and correlated. Myopia gets worse in poor lighting conditions. Look at those poor moles. :o)
  - theshackleford 2y ago
    I spent the majority of my life outdoors until my mid 20’s and have quite bad myopia. So perhaps helpful at a population level, but not a magic fix for everyone.
    - pjerem 2y ago
      That’s effectively what the documentary I saw concluded (it was a French documentary). There is a big part of genetics to start with but the impact of the environment is so big that it can make the difference between no correction needed at all up until unmanageable myopia. Of course you can have a genetic baseline that makes you even more at risk and sensitive but it seems that’s pretty rare overall. Also I’m curious of what you call quite bad myopia. As an example, my myopia is currently around -7 or -8 and to my surprise, I’m the only one being myopic in my whole family tree. Even my son have a perfect vision. And it’s true that when I was young, I wasn’t frequently outside and even more rarely in wide open areas.

bozhark 2y ago

Mirrors

Eric_WVGG 2y ago

A few years ago I heard about a method of using bundles of fiberoptic cable to "pipe" sunlight from a rooftop into rooms. My impression is that it's cheap as hell but impractical. I can't find the article, but this seems to refer to the same idea: https://www.quora.com/Can-fiber-optic-cables-be-used-to-carry-massive-amounts-of-sunlight-to-a-distant-location/answer/Roger-Fentiman https://www.quora.com/Can-fiber-optic-cables-be-used-to-carr...

FourHand451 2y ago
You can buy "skylights" that are essentially internally mirrored tubes that accomplish essentially the same thing. I don't believe they're super cheap right now, but I imagine they could be if they became more widely used. I know someone who installed one in their bathroom and have been surprised at how well it works.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  As a building science scholar, I do not recommend skylights or solar tunnels, as they increase the likelihood of roof leaks in the future (as any roof penetration does). Also impairs thermal management due to lack of insulation between the conditioned space and the exterior. I installed a Velux skylight on one of my previous remodels (replacing an existing low quality skylight), and I still regret it versus decking over the void and deleting the tunnel.
  - wholinator2 2y ago
    I'm currently renting. But i just want to add that the skylight in my house is the single best thing about it. I'm in a location which is pretty well shaded on all sides of my house. The windows that i do have are relatively small and do not let in all that much light. My house is permanently dim, great for sleeping, terrible for starting work in the morning. In this scenario, the skylight in my bathroom while i do the morning ready is a godsend. Are there other better solutions? I'm sure there are, but is the prevalence of issues with properly installing skylights much larger than the prevalence of issues with windows?
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Would a faux skylight led panel serve this purpose? Windows occasionally must withstand driving rain, a roof must withstand falling rain (on whatever cadence your climate dictates, Florida vs California are wildly different environments for example). Broad strokes, water is the enemy and you’re attempting to avoid intrusion whenever possible.
      - alright2565 2y ago
        This is a rabbit hole :) In short, no, unless you have tens-of-thousands[1][2] to spend on this panel. Rays of sunlight are parallel, an effect that very difficult to emulate. There are folks who have developed DIY versions, with impressive results[3], but in that case you're trading off way more effort, potentially requiring maintenance, and a lot more space required. [1]: https://www.coelux.com/en/home-page/index https://www.coelux.com/en/home-page/index [2]: https://hometronics.com/about-us/press/item/coelux-the-40000-artificial-skylight-everyone-will-want https://hometronics.com/about-us/press/item/coelux-the-40000... [3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqBsHSwPgw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqBsHSwPgw
        toomuchtodo 2y ago
        I’m talking a $100 LED panel from Home Depot, not a full replacement to create a virtual skylight. Is it the appearance of sky or just the light? The light is easy, seeing sky (real or virtual) is hard. Example: https://www.homedepot.com/p/JONATHAN-Y-2-ft-x-4-ft-Skylight-50-Watt-5500-Lumens-Dimmable-Integrated-LED-Flat-Panel-Light-with-5000K-White-Set-of-2-JYL9805A-SET2/317420265 https://www.homedepot.com/p/JONATHAN-Y-2-ft-x-4-ft-Skylight-...
- mrec 2y ago
  Yes, I encountered one for the first time in the bathroom of a holiday let and, having no idea what it was, got very confused as to how I was supposed to turn it off. Fortunately we had an experimental nuclear physicist in the party who was able to explain that turning the light off would actually be a very bad idea.
  - thfuran 2y ago
    If we just turned it off for an hour each night, we could solve global warming.
aidenn0 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_tube https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_tube

aeternum 2y ago

Is it now known that light is the primary mechanism? It's crazy that we still don't know for certain. Being outdoors also often means just looking at things that are further away as well as more eye movement.

pjerem 2y ago
Yeah, IIRC, it was in Taiwan or maybe Singapore that they started to see a reverse in the myopia trend in nothing less than one year after having mandated full days outside in school.
- SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
  But that doesn't have to be the light. That could be having to focus on further away objects.
  - aatd86 2y ago
    Probably both equally and correlated. Myopia gets worse in poor lighting conditions. Look at those poor moles. :o)
- theshackleford 2y ago
  I spent the majority of my life outdoors until my mid 20’s and have quite bad myopia. So perhaps helpful at a population level, but not a magic fix for everyone.
  - pjerem 2y ago
    That’s effectively what the documentary I saw concluded (it was a French documentary). There is a big part of genetics to start with but the impact of the environment is so big that it can make the difference between no correction needed at all up until unmanageable myopia. Of course you can have a genetic baseline that makes you even more at risk and sensitive but it seems that’s pretty rare overall. Also I’m curious of what you call quite bad myopia. As an example, my myopia is currently around -7 or -8 and to my surprise, I’m the only one being myopic in my whole family tree. Even my son have a perfect vision. And it’s true that when I was young, I wasn’t frequently outside and even more rarely in wide open areas.