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As a long time amateur photographer (using physical cameras and lenses), I have Halide (by the same company) on my iOS home screen for when I need to take a rea

by z5h 2y ago

As a long time amateur photographer (using physical cameras and lenses), I have Halide (by the same company) on my iOS home screen for when I need to take a real phono on my iPhone. I use it all the time without issue. And would recommend it to any photographer. So I paid for Kino without hesitation. Just fired it up, set BNW grade, pressed record, and it immediately crashed. Tried again and it crashed again. Tried AGAIN and it worked... (iPhone 13 mini, iOS 17.4.1). I have faith this will be worked out soon.

sandofsky 2y ago
We think we have a fix ready. If you'd like to help verify, please email support@lux.camera and mention Hacker News, and we'll get you on a TestFlight.
sandofsky 2y ago
Sorry you ran into that. I distinctly remember testing the 13 mini, due to notch layout issues, so this is unexpected. As soon as the crash reports come in, we’ll dig into that. Unfortunately, while we had a QA person on this, and nearly 100 beta testers, the iPhone camera APIs are a mine field. We’ll get a fix out as soon as we have details.
- danielskogly 2y ago
  Same issue on my iPhone 13 mini 17.5.1, tried with Sando. Crashed immediately after beginning filming
  - halostatue 2y ago
    I tried with my iPhone 12 mini 17.5.1 BNW. It didn't crash, but it looked like it had and then came back with a weird error (sorry, I didn’t capture it). My phone is due for an upgrade soon, so it’s not a big deal at the moment.
- ungamedplayer 2y ago
  I heard that the iPhone landscape was not fragmented though.
  - frogpelt 2y ago
    That is a comment usually always stated in comparison to Android hardware. Would you say those two are equally fragmented?
    - ungamedplayer 2y ago
      I don't write for either. An API is an API though.
  - zamadatix 2y ago
    Definitely fragmented, even within the same generation and software version there are clearly meaningful hardware differences, but more like "dry mud" cracked apart than "grand canyon" cracked apart in comparison to other options. Still something you have to deal with though, no getting around that.
  - sandofsky 2y ago
    If you stick to the high level "Hey, take a photo for me" APIs, it isn't a problem. If you want to take advantage of hardware specific features, the iPhone camera system varies from generation to generation, and sometimes within a single generation. On top of this, the AV frameworks have a mountain of undefined behavior which easily breaks with iOS updates. There are tons of iOS and model specific code branches that have cropped up in Halide over the years. That said, it doesn't hold a candle to Android fragmentation. It's a major reason we will not touch the platform.
- infinitedata 2y ago
  This looks really promising, hope all goes great! My only concern is reading that you do collect crash reports despite being privacy-focused. How much information is there to identify the picture/video taken or the device/person?
  - js2 2y ago
    There's two possibilities. 1. They're using the crash reports provided through App Store Connect. These are stack traces with no personally identifying information. You can enable/disable these under Settings > Privacy & Security > Share With App Developers. 2. They're using a third-party crash reporter. Under the covers these are often based on PLCrashReporter or KSCrash. A few such as Firebase (previously Crashlytics) implement their own exception handlers/stack unwinders. These are typically anonymized, but at this point it's the app (or the crash reporting SDK it includes) to decide exactly what to report. Most apps will try hard to avoid PII because that's easier than dealing with GDPR, CCPA, ATT disclosures, etc. > As soon as the crash reports come in This leads me to believe it's (1) since third-party crash reporters usually send in the crash reports as soon as the app has restarted, while Apple delays crash reports in App Store Connect. In which case the app itself isn't collecting anything: it's iOS and you choose to opt-in when you first setup the device.
    - wahnfrieden 2y ago
      Their privacy manifest shows that they do not collect any data. So they are either not using Firebase or similar for crash analytics, or their privacy manifest is inaccurate and should be reported. We must specify that we're collecting diagnostics (apart from the ones Apple collects on our behalf for opt-in users) even if they aren't attached to PII or user identifiers. So if they're doing this honestly, it indicates they are relying on Apple's opt-in crash analytics exclusively. In my experience at least 80-90% of users are NOT opted in to sharing usage analytics with Apple, so they won't receive most crash reports unless they're collecting them through an undisclosed backdoor.
    - sandofsky 2y ago
      Yup. We just use Apple’s crash reporting system.
col_rad 2y ago
Same issue with iPhone 12 mini, iOS 17.4.1
shrew 2y ago
Same phone and same OS version down to the patch number. I’ve noticed UI hangs and stutter when changing the grades, and BNW in particular seems to cause the biggest issues. Not yet experienced a crash even if I flick between grades in quick succession. I did also find manual focus produced odd green visual artefacts in the live view as you move the focus control. With that said, it’s a nice UI, hopefully the bugs can be ironed out!
- sandofsky 2y ago
  The green is focus peaking. In a future update, we plan to make that opt-in in the UI.
  - shrew 2y ago
    Ah, my lack of knowledge rather than a bug then, my bad! Thanks for explanation!
KennyBlanken 2y ago
I paid for Halide and almost immediately afterward, they announced a policy of locking new features made after whatever version you had bought unless you bought it a second time. It's the only app I've ever bought whose developer has done that bullshit. I won't make that mistake again.
- fragmede 2y ago
  why would buying an old version entitle you to a new version?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - zamadatix 2y ago
    For every couple year major versions (with decently advanced notice it's coming and/or a recency allowance) I think it's fair to charge anew but for minor improvements over the lifecycle of a major version I think it's fair to want to buy everything that will come in the major version up front if you're making a one time purchase. Tons of software is this way from Sublime to Windows to ZBrush to an absolute crapload of games. In this model a one time purchase is seen more as an alternative to holding a subscription over the lifetime rather than the intent to forego any future features or enhancements out of interest of the exact current feature set being all you'll ever want. There is also the "in-between model" e.g. IntelliJ where you get the current version + a period of updates and you can either stay with where it ends at that period or pay a smaller amount for more updates. I'm not sure which group the Halide changes mentioned above fell into but just on the general topic I think it's a fair expectation.
    - augustohp 2y ago
      They do something which is "common" in Apple-land (Dash for MacOS does this, a Twitter client did this as well, over and over): They get the same app, add some features, call it v2, launch as a new app and remove v1 from the store. They don't "give" you the new version. They take away the app you paid "once", and provide you with a version with an expire date. So you have no choice. You either pay them, again, or lose access to the v2 (subscription based) app. I don't mind paying for good software, I even think Hallide is worth $60. But I won't make the same mistake again. So best of luck Lux! I really wish you all the success. If you treat your customers right this time.
ein0p 2y ago
One time fee + good software = instant purchase from me as well. Subscription usually means no deal. I don’t lease my tools.
firecall 2y ago
FWIW, no issues on first run on my iPhone 13 Pro Max :-) Could be related to the 13 mini cameras specifically.
parkersweb 2y ago
Just to add - same issue iPhone 12 - iOS 17.4.1
totetsu 2y ago
Crashed on an SE

by z5h 2y ago

sandofsky 2y ago

We think we have a fix ready. If you'd like to help verify, please email support@lux.camera and mention Hacker News, and we'll get you on a TestFlight.

sandofsky 2y ago

Sorry you ran into that. I distinctly remember testing the 13 mini, due to notch layout issues, so this is unexpected. As soon as the crash reports come in, we’ll dig into that. Unfortunately, while we had a QA person on this, and nearly 100 beta testers, the iPhone camera APIs are a mine field. We’ll get a fix out as soon as we have details.

danielskogly 2y ago
Same issue on my iPhone 13 mini 17.5.1, tried with Sando. Crashed immediately after beginning filming
- halostatue 2y ago
  I tried with my iPhone 12 mini 17.5.1 BNW. It didn't crash, but it looked like it had and then came back with a weird error (sorry, I didn’t capture it). My phone is due for an upgrade soon, so it’s not a big deal at the moment.
ungamedplayer 2y ago
I heard that the iPhone landscape was not fragmented though.
- frogpelt 2y ago
  That is a comment usually always stated in comparison to Android hardware. Would you say those two are equally fragmented?
  - ungamedplayer 2y ago
    I don't write for either. An API is an API though.
- zamadatix 2y ago
  Definitely fragmented, even within the same generation and software version there are clearly meaningful hardware differences, but more like "dry mud" cracked apart than "grand canyon" cracked apart in comparison to other options. Still something you have to deal with though, no getting around that.
- sandofsky 2y ago
  If you stick to the high level "Hey, take a photo for me" APIs, it isn't a problem. If you want to take advantage of hardware specific features, the iPhone camera system varies from generation to generation, and sometimes within a single generation. On top of this, the AV frameworks have a mountain of undefined behavior which easily breaks with iOS updates. There are tons of iOS and model specific code branches that have cropped up in Halide over the years. That said, it doesn't hold a candle to Android fragmentation. It's a major reason we will not touch the platform.
infinitedata 2y ago
This looks really promising, hope all goes great! My only concern is reading that you do collect crash reports despite being privacy-focused. How much information is there to identify the picture/video taken or the device/person?
- js2 2y ago
  There's two possibilities. 1. They're using the crash reports provided through App Store Connect. These are stack traces with no personally identifying information. You can enable/disable these under Settings > Privacy & Security > Share With App Developers. 2. They're using a third-party crash reporter. Under the covers these are often based on PLCrashReporter or KSCrash. A few such as Firebase (previously Crashlytics) implement their own exception handlers/stack unwinders. These are typically anonymized, but at this point it's the app (or the crash reporting SDK it includes) to decide exactly what to report. Most apps will try hard to avoid PII because that's easier than dealing with GDPR, CCPA, ATT disclosures, etc. > As soon as the crash reports come in This leads me to believe it's (1) since third-party crash reporters usually send in the crash reports as soon as the app has restarted, while Apple delays crash reports in App Store Connect. In which case the app itself isn't collecting anything: it's iOS and you choose to opt-in when you first setup the device.
  - wahnfrieden 2y ago
    Their privacy manifest shows that they do not collect any data. So they are either not using Firebase or similar for crash analytics, or their privacy manifest is inaccurate and should be reported. We must specify that we're collecting diagnostics (apart from the ones Apple collects on our behalf for opt-in users) even if they aren't attached to PII or user identifiers. So if they're doing this honestly, it indicates they are relying on Apple's opt-in crash analytics exclusively. In my experience at least 80-90% of users are NOT opted in to sharing usage analytics with Apple, so they won't receive most crash reports unless they're collecting them through an undisclosed backdoor.
  - sandofsky 2y ago
    Yup. We just use Apple’s crash reporting system.

col_rad 2y ago

Same issue with iPhone 12 mini, iOS 17.4.1

shrew 2y ago

Same phone and same OS version down to the patch number. I’ve noticed UI hangs and stutter when changing the grades, and BNW in particular seems to cause the biggest issues. Not yet experienced a crash even if I flick between grades in quick succession. I did also find manual focus produced odd green visual artefacts in the live view as you move the focus control. With that said, it’s a nice UI, hopefully the bugs can be ironed out!

sandofsky 2y ago
The green is focus peaking. In a future update, we plan to make that opt-in in the UI.
- shrew 2y ago
  Ah, my lack of knowledge rather than a bug then, my bad! Thanks for explanation!

KennyBlanken 2y ago

I paid for Halide and almost immediately afterward, they announced a policy of locking new features made after whatever version you had bought unless you bought it a second time. It's the only app I've ever bought whose developer has done that bullshit. I won't make that mistake again.

fragmede 2y ago
why would buying an old version entitle you to a new version?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- zamadatix 2y ago
  For every couple year major versions (with decently advanced notice it's coming and/or a recency allowance) I think it's fair to charge anew but for minor improvements over the lifecycle of a major version I think it's fair to want to buy everything that will come in the major version up front if you're making a one time purchase. Tons of software is this way from Sublime to Windows to ZBrush to an absolute crapload of games. In this model a one time purchase is seen more as an alternative to holding a subscription over the lifetime rather than the intent to forego any future features or enhancements out of interest of the exact current feature set being all you'll ever want. There is also the "in-between model" e.g. IntelliJ where you get the current version + a period of updates and you can either stay with where it ends at that period or pay a smaller amount for more updates. I'm not sure which group the Halide changes mentioned above fell into but just on the general topic I think it's a fair expectation.
  - augustohp 2y ago
    They do something which is "common" in Apple-land (Dash for MacOS does this, a Twitter client did this as well, over and over): They get the same app, add some features, call it v2, launch as a new app and remove v1 from the store. They don't "give" you the new version. They take away the app you paid "once", and provide you with a version with an expire date. So you have no choice. You either pay them, again, or lose access to the v2 (subscription based) app. I don't mind paying for good software, I even think Hallide is worth $60. But I won't make the same mistake again. So best of luck Lux! I really wish you all the success. If you treat your customers right this time.

ein0p 2y ago

One time fee + good software = instant purchase from me as well. Subscription usually means no deal. I don’t lease my tools.

firecall 2y ago

FWIW, no issues on first run on my iPhone 13 Pro Max :-) Could be related to the 13 mini cameras specifically.

parkersweb 2y ago

Just to add - same issue iPhone 12 - iOS 17.4.1

totetsu 2y ago

Crashed on an SE