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> - basically everyone has JS enabled Nope; don't forget that scripts don't always load. Opera on Mint kills bloated scripts (a.k.a. jQuery). This usually resu

> - basically everyone has JS enabled Nope; don't forget that scripts don't always load. Opera on Mint kills bloated scripts (a.k.a. jQuery). This usually results in a white page. > - they were too hard to do Perhaps lazy developers should reconsider their profession then. > - IE6 went away Browser versions are irrelevant. > - you can make significantly better UX without them An utter falsehood. Refer to my earlier experience with white pages. > - there is business value to usable apps There's no business value in casting a wider net? That's bewildering. > - there is no business value to catering to people who disable javascript It seems to me that you're only interested in turning a quick buck. That's disheartening. > - the existence of things like Modernizer make it possible to assume that everyone has the fancy features you need. Assumptions cast from half-baked feature tests aren't an absolute by any measure. "Everyone" is definitely misleading here.

pbiggar 14y ago
Please don't put words in my mouth, and please don't immediately assume the very worst interpretation of what I say. For example, when I said "there is business value to usable apps", I actually didn't imply "there is no business value to casting a wider not". To say nothing of your "quick buck" comment. It's dishonest to play tricks like this, so I would ask you to rewrite your comment as if your target audience was an intelligent human being looking for an intelligent discussion.
- mkmcdonald 14y ago
  "there is business value to usable apps" didn't fit into the tone of your post, so I hope you can forgive a bit of unintentional creative interpretation (one word). I made no attempt to play tricks. The rest of the post was simply a point-by-point dissection. None of your other points are valid. The only somewhat valid argument I hear against proper browser compatibility is "we don't have time", which is usually a self-inflicted wound. Stable web pages that gracefully degrade are fully possible, even today. I wrote a unit test that degrades in IE 5 this week.
  - pbiggar 14y ago
    > I wrote a unit test that degrades in IE 5 this week. I hope the 0.02% of your users who benefited from that, are very happy.

pbiggar 14y ago

Please don't put words in my mouth, and please don't immediately assume the very worst interpretation of what I say. For example, when I said "there is business value to usable apps", I actually didn't imply "there is no business value to casting a wider not". To say nothing of your "quick buck" comment. It's dishonest to play tricks like this, so I would ask you to rewrite your comment as if your target audience was an intelligent human being looking for an intelligent discussion.

mkmcdonald 14y ago
"there is business value to usable apps" didn't fit into the tone of your post, so I hope you can forgive a bit of unintentional creative interpretation (one word). I made no attempt to play tricks. The rest of the post was simply a point-by-point dissection. None of your other points are valid. The only somewhat valid argument I hear against proper browser compatibility is "we don't have time", which is usually a self-inflicted wound. Stable web pages that gracefully degrade are fully possible, even today. I wrote a unit test that degrades in IE 5 this week.
- pbiggar 14y ago
  > I wrote a unit test that degrades in IE 5 this week. I hope the 0.02% of your users who benefited from that, are very happy.