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Electricity is not an energy source. You need to make electric energy at a power plant. Usually, you end up burning coal or natural gas, and unfortunately we ar

Electricity is not an energy source. You need to make electric energy at a power plant. Usually, you end up burning coal or natural gas, and unfortunately we are shutting down nuclear everywhere in the west. In contrast, gasoline is still cheap and efficient, and modern cars burn gasoline so well that the tail pipe emissions are 99% cleaner than cars made in the 1970's. [1] Solar and wind would help but aren't enough. And again, you need to burn energy to make those things. For all their faults, modern cars and trucks are pretty great given their trade offs. [1] https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/accomplishments-and-successes-reducing-air https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate...

Retric 2y ago
Making and transporting gasoline releases more than 1/3 of the pollution associated with cars. It’s a lot dirtier than just what comes out of your tailpipe because flaring doesn’t have a catalytic converter, and they don’t remove sulfur etc until later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_flare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_flare Fossil fuel use for making electricity has been falling, and cars last 25 years. So over an EV’s lifetime the grid will likely keep getting cleaner. In 2000 70.2% of US electricity came from fossil fuels, in 2010 69.5%, in 2015 it was 65.81%, in 2022 59.77%. Let’s see what happens in 2030, 2040, etc. Further, the added capacity to power EV’s isn’t the same as what’s powering the existing demand. The US hasn’t built a new coal power plant in years, but we aren’t going to decommission them early either. PS: People complain about bird strikes on wind turbines but they forget about incidents like: “Approximately 7,500 migrating songbirds were attracted to and killed by the flare at the liquefied natural gas terminal in Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada on September 13, 2013.” Fossil fuels are even worse than generally perceived.
greenthrow 2y ago
Solar and wind are enough, and more and more countries are making more and more of their power needs with renewables. Stop spreading FUD. I have residential solar in Michigan of all places and power our all EV household with it. We can do this at grid scale if we just stop listening to the same old lies the fossil fuel and nuclear industries have been pushing for decades.
- game_the0ry 2y ago
  > Solar and wind are enough, and more and more countries are making more and more of their power needs with renewables. Stop spreading FUD. Just to be clear - I am trying to say that solar and wind are worthwhile to pursue in addition to the fossil fuel energy sources and infrastructure that exist now. But solar and wind won't replace fossil fuel, unless we drastically reduce fossil fuel consumption. > I have residential solar in Michigan of all places and power our all EV household with it. We can do this at grid scale if we just stop listening to the same old lies the fossil fuel and nuclear industries have been pushing for decades. This is awesome. This is the way. We need more of this. I want this too.
  - greenthrow 2y ago
    EVs already drastically reduce our need for kWh by virtue of being so muck more efficient than ICE vehicles. Add on other much more efficient technologies and we will need far less energy per household in the future than we do today. However, even if that were not true, we could still easily replace all our current consumption with renewables. The idea that we can't is another fossil fuel industry lie.
SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
> Electricity is not an energy source. You need to make electric energy at a power plant. Usually, you end up burning coal or natural gas, FYI, this old argument has the name "the long tailpipe" https://www.forbes.com/sites/enriquedans/2018/08/19/myths-and-shibboleths-about-electric-vehicles-the-long-tailpipe-theory/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/enriquedans/2018/08/19/myths-an... "In short, the long tailpipe theory is a myth used by those who, for whatever reason, oppose change." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe
sixothree 2y ago
By that logic, neither is gasoline.

Retric 2y ago

Making and transporting gasoline releases more than 1/3 of the pollution associated with cars. It’s a lot dirtier than just what comes out of your tailpipe because flaring doesn’t have a catalytic converter, and they don’t remove sulfur etc until later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_flare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_flare Fossil fuel use for making electricity has been falling, and cars last 25 years. So over an EV’s lifetime the grid will likely keep getting cleaner. In 2000 70.2% of US electricity came from fossil fuels, in 2010 69.5%, in 2015 it was 65.81%, in 2022 59.77%. Let’s see what happens in 2030, 2040, etc. Further, the added capacity to power EV’s isn’t the same as what’s powering the existing demand. The US hasn’t built a new coal power plant in years, but we aren’t going to decommission them early either. PS: People complain about bird strikes on wind turbines but they forget about incidents like: “Approximately 7,500 migrating songbirds were attracted to and killed by the flare at the liquefied natural gas terminal in Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada on September 13, 2013.” Fossil fuels are even worse than generally perceived.

greenthrow 2y ago

Solar and wind are enough, and more and more countries are making more and more of their power needs with renewables. Stop spreading FUD. I have residential solar in Michigan of all places and power our all EV household with it. We can do this at grid scale if we just stop listening to the same old lies the fossil fuel and nuclear industries have been pushing for decades.

game_the0ry 2y ago
> Solar and wind are enough, and more and more countries are making more and more of their power needs with renewables. Stop spreading FUD. Just to be clear - I am trying to say that solar and wind are worthwhile to pursue in addition to the fossil fuel energy sources and infrastructure that exist now. But solar and wind won't replace fossil fuel, unless we drastically reduce fossil fuel consumption. > I have residential solar in Michigan of all places and power our all EV household with it. We can do this at grid scale if we just stop listening to the same old lies the fossil fuel and nuclear industries have been pushing for decades. This is awesome. This is the way. We need more of this. I want this too.
- greenthrow 2y ago
  EVs already drastically reduce our need for kWh by virtue of being so muck more efficient than ICE vehicles. Add on other much more efficient technologies and we will need far less energy per household in the future than we do today. However, even if that were not true, we could still easily replace all our current consumption with renewables. The idea that we can't is another fossil fuel industry lie.

SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago

> Electricity is not an energy source. You need to make electric energy at a power plant. Usually, you end up burning coal or natural gas, FYI, this old argument has the name "the long tailpipe" https://www.forbes.com/sites/enriquedans/2018/08/19/myths-and-shibboleths-about-electric-vehicles-the-long-tailpipe-theory/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/enriquedans/2018/08/19/myths-an... "In short, the long tailpipe theory is a myth used by those who, for whatever reason, oppose change." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe

sixothree 2y ago

By that logic, neither is gasoline.