6 ms·

I'm surprised by the tech part. I was under the impression Googlers used a lot of Python, for instance, and possibly other languages... Are these exceptional ca

by herval 14y ago

I'm surprised by the tech part. I was under the impression Googlers used a lot of Python, for instance, and possibly other languages... Are these exceptional cases, then?

ChuckMcM 14y ago
When I was there is was more by 'layer' so if you were in the customer facing side you were pretty much talking Java or C++ but if you were in operations it could be Python, C, or bash scripts even.
- heretohelp 14y ago
  > if you were in operations it could be Python, C, or bash scripts even. As the case may be of late...Haskell.
j_baker 14y ago
Google's a bit ambivalent about Python. On one hand, you have a contingent of programmers who don't consider python a "real" programming language. These types seem to be mostly on the search team. On the other hand, there are plenty of pockets within the company where Python is used pretty heavily. The most notable is arguably the App Engine team.
- tim_sw 14y ago
  and youtube
- myko 14y ago
  I found this out during my interviews at Google; after I solved a problem using Python the interviewer gave me another and said "this time use a real language." Ouch.
  - underwater 14y ago
    That's pretty bad. Interviewing should also be about selling the candidate on the company. If they get an offer you want them to accept. If they don't then you don't want them bad mouthing you to other potential candidates. If an interviewer insulted me or my language choice in an interview it would definitely make me wonder how they would treat me as a coworker.
    - lucian1900 14y ago
      The entire Google interview process is slanted that way. They keep making you feel privileged for being able to take that interview, and almost never try to make you sell the company to you.
      - Drbble 14y ago
        This has changed a lot for the better in recent years. Also, a lot of geniuses are socially inept. I doubt you said everything right in your interview either. It helps to smile and keep going when one person in ten shows a flaw.
  - majormajor 14y ago
    That's the sort of thing that would make me strongly consider ending the interview, at least if I was going to be working directly for the interviewer. No need to waste more of their or my time than necessary, and I really wouldn't like working in that kind of insulting environment. And from a probably-immature perspective, the feel of power from being the guy saying "sorry, I'm not interested anymore" instead of hoping they call you back is nice. Or, if I was really annoyed: bust out some Common Lisp for the next problem, then leave.
    - Goladus 14y ago
      Seriously, he said the next question was string manipulation or something: #include <stdio.h> char f[8] = {70, 117, 99, 107, 32, 121, 111, 117}; int main(){ int u; for(u=0; u<8; u++) { printf("%c", f[u]); } printf(".\n"); } Thank them for their time and walk out.
  - zobzu 14y ago
    When I get stuff like that, I'm generally like "oh wait I'll try a real company". Not that C is not lower level for example. I love C. But since the interviewers are actual devs and managers at Google, it shows quite a bit. I'm guessing it'd be nice starting writing in a lesser known language or even just go for some old arch object code (like 68k object code which is pretty simple to write, and the chance is high that the interviewer will be clueless and find this a bad joke - and yes i can write that as i did a lot of it 15years ago, its straight forward) Then Google writes you as an "do not employ" person of course and say that you do not fit (while you declined them), but hey, honesty, balls, and being dumb sometimes feel good. Sounds like a true story.. oh, I know.
    - j_baker 14y ago
      Anyone who's a common victim of recruiter spam might actually consider being blacklisted a plus.
  - jrockway 14y ago
    You should definitely mention things like this to your recruiter. Sometimes interviewers misunderstand or make a mistake, and that shouldn't be counted against you. Obviously it's rational for this event to make you uninterested in working for Google, but if that's not the case, it helps to escalate your concerns or complaints.
  - cpeterso 14y ago
    That's a lame response from the interviewer, but you should probably have asked him what language you should use before doing it. If he did not say, then his question is underspecified (maybe to test you). When I interview someone, I explicitly prefix coding questions with "you can just write pseudo-code or whatever you prefer" or "please use C/C++".
    - myko 14y ago
      This is good advice. I believe I did ask and get the okay for using Python on this particular problem, which made the reaction a bit more surprising to me. The next question had to do with string manipulation and I think he was just worried it would've been terribly easy if done in Python.
      - cpeterso 14y ago
        At least it sounds like the interviewer was just focusing on the next question and not putting you down for using Python.
- ikailan 14y ago
  While Python is a sizeable part of App Engine (SDK, admin console, tooling .. some other things I can't remember right now), the majority of the code is Java and C++. It's one of the reasons Python isn't listed as one of the top needs (http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/07/wanted-app-engineers.html http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/07/wanted-app-engin...) over C++ and Java. That being said, it's a very Python friendly team. Guido's on it (HI GUIDO).
jemfinch 14y ago
Every time here at Google that I've started a project in Python, I've finished it in C++ because Python had neither the speed I needed nor the maintainability I wanted. Every. single. time.
- arkitaip 14y ago
  I can understand the speed part but maintainability? Sounds interesting, would you like to elaborate?
  - djmdjm 14y ago
    Duck typing makes for difficult debugging in large programs.
  - dmaz 14y ago
    I do like Python but haven't used it for anything more than a few thousand lines. The dynamic nature puts many errors into the runtime stage and increases verification complexity. Can be limited by static code checking, but grows cumbersome.
    - swah 14y ago
      What do you use for longer programs?
      - dmaz 14y ago
        Go if possible, C++ otherwise.
  - jemfinch 14y ago
    Static typing is a godsend when you're working with code that you only vaguely remember from the last time you worked with it a year ago. It also gives me much more confidence when refactoring: the compiler will find the callsites I missed.
    - 14y ago
tensafefrogs 14y ago
YouTube's codebase is largely python, but it was sort of grandfathered in. I'm unsure if it would be used if they were to rewrite it today.
- philsnow 14y ago
  Some parts of it are being rewritten from the ground up, and I know of at least one sizeable portion that's being rewritten in python. edit: depending on who you meant by 'they', I bet go would be a contender for (parts of) a total rewrite
- luriel 14y ago
  YouTube is starting to use Go quite a lot. They even released this: http://code.google.com/p/vitess/ http://code.google.com/p/vitess/
- tempacct4321 14y ago
  What does "grandfathered" mean? Seen the term in a few recent HN posts as well, dealing with accounts at web sites where they change plans, etc. TIA.
srj 14y ago
The part of the codebase I work on in maps is written in C++, making it the language used most often within my team. I've finished a number of projects in python though, and I don't get any impression that I'm required to program in these languages should I think another is more appropriate.

by herval 14y ago

I'm surprised by the tech part. I was under the impression Googlers used a lot of Python, for instance, and possibly other languages... Are these exceptional cases, then?

ChuckMcM 14y ago

When I was there is was more by 'layer' so if you were in the customer facing side you were pretty much talking Java or C++ but if you were in operations it could be Python, C, or bash scripts even.

heretohelp 14y ago
> if you were in operations it could be Python, C, or bash scripts even. As the case may be of late...Haskell.

j_baker 14y ago

Google's a bit ambivalent about Python. On one hand, you have a contingent of programmers who don't consider python a "real" programming language. These types seem to be mostly on the search team. On the other hand, there are plenty of pockets within the company where Python is used pretty heavily. The most notable is arguably the App Engine team.

tim_sw 14y ago
and youtube
myko 14y ago
I found this out during my interviews at Google; after I solved a problem using Python the interviewer gave me another and said "this time use a real language." Ouch.
- underwater 14y ago
  That's pretty bad. Interviewing should also be about selling the candidate on the company. If they get an offer you want them to accept. If they don't then you don't want them bad mouthing you to other potential candidates. If an interviewer insulted me or my language choice in an interview it would definitely make me wonder how they would treat me as a coworker.
  - lucian1900 14y ago
    The entire Google interview process is slanted that way. They keep making you feel privileged for being able to take that interview, and almost never try to make you sell the company to you.
    - Drbble 14y ago
      This has changed a lot for the better in recent years. Also, a lot of geniuses are socially inept. I doubt you said everything right in your interview either. It helps to smile and keep going when one person in ten shows a flaw.
- majormajor 14y ago
  That's the sort of thing that would make me strongly consider ending the interview, at least if I was going to be working directly for the interviewer. No need to waste more of their or my time than necessary, and I really wouldn't like working in that kind of insulting environment. And from a probably-immature perspective, the feel of power from being the guy saying "sorry, I'm not interested anymore" instead of hoping they call you back is nice. Or, if I was really annoyed: bust out some Common Lisp for the next problem, then leave.
  - Goladus 14y ago
    Seriously, he said the next question was string manipulation or something: #include <stdio.h> char f[8] = {70, 117, 99, 107, 32, 121, 111, 117}; int main(){ int u; for(u=0; u<8; u++) { printf("%c", f[u]); } printf(".\n"); } Thank them for their time and walk out.
- zobzu 14y ago
  When I get stuff like that, I'm generally like "oh wait I'll try a real company". Not that C is not lower level for example. I love C. But since the interviewers are actual devs and managers at Google, it shows quite a bit. I'm guessing it'd be nice starting writing in a lesser known language or even just go for some old arch object code (like 68k object code which is pretty simple to write, and the chance is high that the interviewer will be clueless and find this a bad joke - and yes i can write that as i did a lot of it 15years ago, its straight forward) Then Google writes you as an "do not employ" person of course and say that you do not fit (while you declined them), but hey, honesty, balls, and being dumb sometimes feel good. Sounds like a true story.. oh, I know.
  - j_baker 14y ago
    Anyone who's a common victim of recruiter spam might actually consider being blacklisted a plus.
- jrockway 14y ago
  You should definitely mention things like this to your recruiter. Sometimes interviewers misunderstand or make a mistake, and that shouldn't be counted against you. Obviously it's rational for this event to make you uninterested in working for Google, but if that's not the case, it helps to escalate your concerns or complaints.
- cpeterso 14y ago
  That's a lame response from the interviewer, but you should probably have asked him what language you should use before doing it. If he did not say, then his question is underspecified (maybe to test you). When I interview someone, I explicitly prefix coding questions with "you can just write pseudo-code or whatever you prefer" or "please use C/C++".
  - myko 14y ago
    This is good advice. I believe I did ask and get the okay for using Python on this particular problem, which made the reaction a bit more surprising to me. The next question had to do with string manipulation and I think he was just worried it would've been terribly easy if done in Python.
    - cpeterso 14y ago
      At least it sounds like the interviewer was just focusing on the next question and not putting you down for using Python.
ikailan 14y ago
While Python is a sizeable part of App Engine (SDK, admin console, tooling .. some other things I can't remember right now), the majority of the code is Java and C++. It's one of the reasons Python isn't listed as one of the top needs (http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/07/wanted-app-engineers.html http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/07/wanted-app-engin...) over C++ and Java. That being said, it's a very Python friendly team. Guido's on it (HI GUIDO).

jemfinch 14y ago

Every time here at Google that I've started a project in Python, I've finished it in C++ because Python had neither the speed I needed nor the maintainability I wanted. Every. single. time.

arkitaip 14y ago
I can understand the speed part but maintainability? Sounds interesting, would you like to elaborate?
- djmdjm 14y ago
  Duck typing makes for difficult debugging in large programs.
- dmaz 14y ago
  I do like Python but haven't used it for anything more than a few thousand lines. The dynamic nature puts many errors into the runtime stage and increases verification complexity. Can be limited by static code checking, but grows cumbersome.
  - swah 14y ago
    What do you use for longer programs?
    - dmaz 14y ago
      Go if possible, C++ otherwise.
- jemfinch 14y ago
  Static typing is a godsend when you're working with code that you only vaguely remember from the last time you worked with it a year ago. It also gives me much more confidence when refactoring: the compiler will find the callsites I missed.
  - 14y ago

tensafefrogs 14y ago

YouTube's codebase is largely python, but it was sort of grandfathered in. I'm unsure if it would be used if they were to rewrite it today.

philsnow 14y ago
Some parts of it are being rewritten from the ground up, and I know of at least one sizeable portion that's being rewritten in python. edit: depending on who you meant by 'they', I bet go would be a contender for (parts of) a total rewrite
luriel 14y ago
YouTube is starting to use Go quite a lot. They even released this: http://code.google.com/p/vitess/ http://code.google.com/p/vitess/
tempacct4321 14y ago
What does "grandfathered" mean? Seen the term in a few recent HN posts as well, dealing with accounts at web sites where they change plans, etc. TIA.

srj 14y ago

The part of the codebase I work on in maps is written in C++, making it the language used most often within my team. I've finished a number of projects in python though, and I don't get any impression that I'm required to program in these languages should I think another is more appropriate.