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I have infrastructure to easily install an EV charger, but I still prefer hybrid setups because they are more convenient on roadtrips. My recently-acquired Cam

I have infrastructure to easily install an EV charger, but I still prefer hybrid setups because they are more convenient on roadtrips. My recently-acquired Camry Hybrid is a dream to drive, and gets 50+ mpg. I traded in my turbocharged subaru for this eco-friendly sleeper, and it is a better driving experience. All 2025 Camry's can become AWD for ~$1400 OEM.

NikolaNovak 2y ago
I agree with everything you said, but note Toyota awd and Subaru awd are light years apart depending on your preference and requirements. If you need awd to occasionally kick in when you're stuck in the driveway, Toyota awd is fine. If you want a predictable drivetrain that's either reliable in prolonged low-traction conditions, or is fun to drive, Toyota's hybrid/automatic/part time awd likely isn't the right choice. ("source" - owned multiple both, plus their basic design and goals/compromises are fundamentally different)
- ProllyInfamous 2y ago
  Thanks for sharing your experiences. IIRC, my first subaru (2006 WRX) operated as a FWD vehicle with rear traction assist. Perhaps the newer "beauties of all wheel drive" have better power distribution? That I will never again own a center differential to again repair, leaves me energized. For certain, the Camry is always primarily FWD, with minimal rear assist (but helpful, no doubt).
  - NikolaNovak 2y ago
    Unless I'm mistaken, 2006 wrx would've had a limited slip differential in centre and rear, and open differential up front (I drove a 2004 until last year:). Type of centre differential would depend on whether you had manual or automatic transmission (viscous rear regardless) , but either way 1. It would've been in full awd mode all the time with power sent to all the wheels at all times under normal circumstances, and 2. In lose traction situation, you would've had at least one front and both rear wheels moving. It was a fairly predictable drivetrain with essentially "guaranteed" rear wheel movement. I'm omitting some fun and nerdy details here, but it should not have behaved as a primarily fwd car :-/ Is your Camry a hybrid? You mentioned it doesn't have differential, and I must admit my experience has been with gasoline traditional toyotas. I have no experience with the hybrid Toyotas and they may well be more predictable :)
    - ProllyInfamous 2y ago
      It was an automatic 2006 92x; I remember there was a fuse one could remove and it would make the vehicle 100% FWD. The Camry Hybrid does have a front differential; the p710 "transmission" within it is one of the prettiest electromechanical couplings I know [1]. Over 17,000RPM limit on electric MG2's stator. [1] p610/710/810 theory of operation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHc-_E8xWnM&t=651 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHc-_E8xWnM&t=651 The RWD is provided by an isolated rear electric motor.
natch 2y ago
Nobody needs an EV charger. All you need is a 220 outlet and a cable. And if you have a Supercharger nearby as a backup and don't drive much, all you need is a 110 outlet and a cable. The cables I refer to cost around $200 for a good one.
- fifilura 2y ago
  The point is that once you depend on a supercharger, the price of the EV is not that attractive anymore.
  - natch 2y ago
    Relative to gas it’s still good in some locales. But it depends on your local Supercharger pricing (e.g. 11 cents per KwH in PDX, hard to beat that) and your local gas price. Ymmv.
    - fifilura 2y ago
      In Europe it is more like 50-60c/kWh and with 2kWh/10km it is getting pretty close to gas prices. Particularly if you compare with an ultra low consumer like Prius or similar.
- ProllyInfamous 2y ago
  >220 outlet and a cable == one type of "EV Charger"

NikolaNovak 2y ago

I agree with everything you said, but note Toyota awd and Subaru awd are light years apart depending on your preference and requirements. If you need awd to occasionally kick in when you're stuck in the driveway, Toyota awd is fine. If you want a predictable drivetrain that's either reliable in prolonged low-traction conditions, or is fun to drive, Toyota's hybrid/automatic/part time awd likely isn't the right choice. ("source" - owned multiple both, plus their basic design and goals/compromises are fundamentally different)

ProllyInfamous 2y ago
Thanks for sharing your experiences. IIRC, my first subaru (2006 WRX) operated as a FWD vehicle with rear traction assist. Perhaps the newer "beauties of all wheel drive" have better power distribution? That I will never again own a center differential to again repair, leaves me energized. For certain, the Camry is always primarily FWD, with minimal rear assist (but helpful, no doubt).
- NikolaNovak 2y ago
  Unless I'm mistaken, 2006 wrx would've had a limited slip differential in centre and rear, and open differential up front (I drove a 2004 until last year:). Type of centre differential would depend on whether you had manual or automatic transmission (viscous rear regardless) , but either way 1. It would've been in full awd mode all the time with power sent to all the wheels at all times under normal circumstances, and 2. In lose traction situation, you would've had at least one front and both rear wheels moving. It was a fairly predictable drivetrain with essentially "guaranteed" rear wheel movement. I'm omitting some fun and nerdy details here, but it should not have behaved as a primarily fwd car :-/ Is your Camry a hybrid? You mentioned it doesn't have differential, and I must admit my experience has been with gasoline traditional toyotas. I have no experience with the hybrid Toyotas and they may well be more predictable :)
  - ProllyInfamous 2y ago
    It was an automatic 2006 92x; I remember there was a fuse one could remove and it would make the vehicle 100% FWD. The Camry Hybrid does have a front differential; the p710 "transmission" within it is one of the prettiest electromechanical couplings I know [1]. Over 17,000RPM limit on electric MG2's stator. [1] p610/710/810 theory of operation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHc-_E8xWnM&t=651 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHc-_E8xWnM&t=651 The RWD is provided by an isolated rear electric motor.

natch 2y ago

Nobody needs an EV charger. All you need is a 220 outlet and a cable. And if you have a Supercharger nearby as a backup and don't drive much, all you need is a 110 outlet and a cable. The cables I refer to cost around $200 for a good one.

fifilura 2y ago
The point is that once you depend on a supercharger, the price of the EV is not that attractive anymore.
- natch 2y ago
  Relative to gas it’s still good in some locales. But it depends on your local Supercharger pricing (e.g. 11 cents per KwH in PDX, hard to beat that) and your local gas price. Ymmv.
  - fifilura 2y ago
    In Europe it is more like 50-60c/kWh and with 2kWh/10km it is getting pretty close to gas prices. Particularly if you compare with an ultra low consumer like Prius or similar.
ProllyInfamous 2y ago
>220 outlet and a cable == one type of "EV Charger"