6 ms·

Notably, they said "the science" which has nothing to do with science. "The science", as I've seen it used, is almost always an appeal to authority and has very

by chjj 2y ago

Notably, they said "the science" which has nothing to do with science. "The science", as I've seen it used, is almost always an appeal to authority and has very little to do with the scientific method. So maybe their statement is accurate: people aren't mad at science, they're mad at the science -- the authoritarian technocratic regime that locked everyone inside for a year and force-fed them a "safe and effective" vaccine the next.

kevingadd 2y ago
Are you seriously arguing that vaccines don't work?
- chjj 2y ago
  Not sure how that was your conclusion. To be clear: I'm a fan of vaccines. I'm not a fan of a rushed experimental vaccine forced on a populace through government and corporate tyranny.
  - nitwit005 2y ago
    You're portraying it like the police burst into your home, and forcefully injected you with a completely untested vaccine. The reality is, of course, an extremely boring public health campain. Plenty of people just opted out.
    - nomel 2y ago
      Many people would lose their jobs if they refused by "opting out", and many people did. Kissing your job goodbye, in a pandemic, where the government forcefully shuttered many business, was not some free choice to make. Top google search, but I suggest you look into this more, since your perspective is far disconnected from reality: https://www.npr.org/2021/10/24/1047947268/covid-vaccine-workers-quitting-getting-fired-mandates https://www.npr.org/2021/10/24/1047947268/covid-vaccine-work...
      - nitwit005 2y ago
        We all lived through it. We know what happened. I've likely even seen that exact article before. Your original portrayal remains exaggerated.
        nomel 2y ago
        That was my first interaction with you. I just wanted to point out how it was financially forced for many people. Being here, I suspect you, like I, had a choice. It's really bending reality to say everyone had that choice in any sort of equal capacity. Again, you should really look into this more. Your experience, clearly, does not match the reality of many others.
        nitwit005 2y ago
        Applologies, didn't pay enough attention to the username.
        bravetraveler 2y ago
        Don't ignore the rest. To save you effort, I'm a totally new person. Don't just apologize. You didn't acknowledge completely valid points. Your misrepresentation deserves attention as well. Weasel arguments like this are so annoying to observe. 'Be the whole bitch.' I want you to realize you were on shit ground to begin with. The wrong person getting your ire is a distraction. You went off on the slightest bit of hyperbole. The claim wasn't wrong, people were forced by the government and their employers to comply. If you didn't want to suddenly risk your life being turned over, you had to participate in a grand social experiment. Individual risk assessment be damned. Every reader deserves an apology for you, and now, me. I'll close with an anecdote, why I care so much. I'm the un-monitored control group. I had absolutely no risk to the disease. Young, able bodied, living/working remotely in the woods for years. Yet, to maintain employment and frankly, my standard of living, I had to endure additional risk. Because someone else has risk? How did this help?
        2y ago
    - chjj 2y ago
      I'm getting various numbers from different sources on this. Some sources claim 70% of the US population are vaccinated, some say as high as 81%. Whichever it is, it was a minority of people that had the ability to opt out. I suspect a significant number of those who got the vaccination did so under duress. The coercion used in this campaign often threatened peoples' livelihoods and ability to travel, among other things. Personally, I was lucky enough to have a job which did not require vaccination, and I was able to avoid anything that required a vaccination card up until restrictions were lifted. I'm grateful the "vaccine passport" was never brought to fruition during this period of time. I think they realized they pushed too hard with that one and pulled back. I suspect they'll try again eventually though.
    - bun_terminator 2y ago
      But it was just like that, depending on the country! I was forced to "vax" by my employer. The police would have come into my home if I would have for example had people over, since that was illegal. It was illegal for me to go outside for a walk - alone. And I would have been sued for that. I was not allowed in some doctors offices - although I pay about 1K per month. And so on... The last time humanity forced something like that, the world later came together and executed those in charge. And I'll never stop being furious that this is now being swept under the rug. Inhuman crimes happened
  - jasonjayr 2y ago
    You know that mRNA vaccines have been in development, testing, and use long before COVID happened? that's part of the reason it could be deployed so fast.
    - chjj 2y ago
      Yes, I'm aware of mRNA and its history. I'm also aware of Moderna and the purpose of their existence. The covid vaccine was the first approved and widely deployed mRNA vaccine, and R&D is a far cry from injecting such a substance into human beings on the scale of billions. I'm pretty sure I test my software more than they tested that particular vaccine before deployment, and I personally don't like the idea of being a guinea pig.
- graphe 2y ago
  Define the word vaccine.
Turing_Machine 2y ago
Yes. "The science" has become a religion for many. That's not how science is supposed to work.

by chjj 2y ago

kevingadd 2y ago

Are you seriously arguing that vaccines don't work?

chjj 2y ago
Not sure how that was your conclusion. To be clear: I'm a fan of vaccines. I'm not a fan of a rushed experimental vaccine forced on a populace through government and corporate tyranny.
- nitwit005 2y ago
  You're portraying it like the police burst into your home, and forcefully injected you with a completely untested vaccine. The reality is, of course, an extremely boring public health campain. Plenty of people just opted out.
  - nomel 2y ago
    Many people would lose their jobs if they refused by "opting out", and many people did. Kissing your job goodbye, in a pandemic, where the government forcefully shuttered many business, was not some free choice to make. Top google search, but I suggest you look into this more, since your perspective is far disconnected from reality: https://www.npr.org/2021/10/24/1047947268/covid-vaccine-workers-quitting-getting-fired-mandates https://www.npr.org/2021/10/24/1047947268/covid-vaccine-work...
    - nitwit005 2y ago
      We all lived through it. We know what happened. I've likely even seen that exact article before. Your original portrayal remains exaggerated.
      - nomel 2y ago
        That was my first interaction with you. I just wanted to point out how it was financially forced for many people. Being here, I suspect you, like I, had a choice. It's really bending reality to say everyone had that choice in any sort of equal capacity. Again, you should really look into this more. Your experience, clearly, does not match the reality of many others.
        nitwit005 2y ago
        Applologies, didn't pay enough attention to the username.
        bravetraveler 2y ago
        Don't ignore the rest. To save you effort, I'm a totally new person. Don't just apologize. You didn't acknowledge completely valid points. Your misrepresentation deserves attention as well. Weasel arguments like this are so annoying to observe. 'Be the whole bitch.' I want you to realize you were on shit ground to begin with. The wrong person getting your ire is a distraction. You went off on the slightest bit of hyperbole. The claim wasn't wrong, people were forced by the government and their employers to comply. If you didn't want to suddenly risk your life being turned over, you had to participate in a grand social experiment. Individual risk assessment be damned. Every reader deserves an apology for you, and now, me. I'll close with an anecdote, why I care so much. I'm the un-monitored control group. I had absolutely no risk to the disease. Young, able bodied, living/working remotely in the woods for years. Yet, to maintain employment and frankly, my standard of living, I had to endure additional risk. Because someone else has risk? How did this help?
        2y ago
  - chjj 2y ago
    I'm getting various numbers from different sources on this. Some sources claim 70% of the US population are vaccinated, some say as high as 81%. Whichever it is, it was a minority of people that had the ability to opt out. I suspect a significant number of those who got the vaccination did so under duress. The coercion used in this campaign often threatened peoples' livelihoods and ability to travel, among other things. Personally, I was lucky enough to have a job which did not require vaccination, and I was able to avoid anything that required a vaccination card up until restrictions were lifted. I'm grateful the "vaccine passport" was never brought to fruition during this period of time. I think they realized they pushed too hard with that one and pulled back. I suspect they'll try again eventually though.
  - bun_terminator 2y ago
    But it was just like that, depending on the country! I was forced to "vax" by my employer. The police would have come into my home if I would have for example had people over, since that was illegal. It was illegal for me to go outside for a walk - alone. And I would have been sued for that. I was not allowed in some doctors offices - although I pay about 1K per month. And so on... The last time humanity forced something like that, the world later came together and executed those in charge. And I'll never stop being furious that this is now being swept under the rug. Inhuman crimes happened
- jasonjayr 2y ago
  You know that mRNA vaccines have been in development, testing, and use long before COVID happened? that's part of the reason it could be deployed so fast.
  - chjj 2y ago
    Yes, I'm aware of mRNA and its history. I'm also aware of Moderna and the purpose of their existence. The covid vaccine was the first approved and widely deployed mRNA vaccine, and R&D is a far cry from injecting such a substance into human beings on the scale of billions. I'm pretty sure I test my software more than they tested that particular vaccine before deployment, and I personally don't like the idea of being a guinea pig.
graphe 2y ago
Define the word vaccine.

Turing_Machine 2y ago

Yes. "The science" has become a religion for many. That's not how science is supposed to work.