4 ms·

Plenty of high level executives get punished, iff they hurt other rich people. FTX took from investors. You can steal from poor people all you want, but if you

Plenty of high level executives get punished, iff they hurt other rich people. FTX took from investors. You can steal from poor people all you want, but if you steal from the rich you go to jail.

robertlagrant 2y ago
I thought the main problem was that FTX commingled regular deposits (i.e. normal people's funds) with at-risk investments. I.e. they're mostly guilty because there wasn't a wall protecting the deposits.
- WrongAssumption 2y ago
  If I have a pile of money, and add your money to my pile and go to the blackjack table put it all on black without your consent. That’s theft.
  - aidenn0 2y ago
    > ...go to the blackjack table put it all on black... I'm guessing you're not very familiar with games of chance.
    - jancsika 2y ago
      Well, neither was FTX, so how is this not apt? :)
    - mbreese 2y ago
      Or they didn’t understand the game they were playing… sounds like a perfectly mixed metaphor to me.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - soulofmischief 2y ago
      Personally, I put it all on jack. He seems like a trustworthy fella.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    This seems irrelevant to my comment.
    - code_duck 2y ago
      It seems to agree with your comment, though not sure what they intended.
    - NiloCK 2y ago
      The implicit connection is that some of the unprotected deposits that were gambled away belonged to rich people.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        Well, it's just a declaration of what theft is, phrased as though I don't know what theft is. Which is wrong, and also doesn't seem relevant.
        kosievdmerwe 2y ago
        Not quite true a lot of people seem to think that if you won the roulette spin that you committed no foul. At least in terms of how they argued SBF should be sentenced. So as you said the commingling was a large part of their crime. But they did commit a bunch of straight up theft of customer funds to pay for marketing, political donations or stuff like houses for the employees.
  - mchannon 2y ago
    Recommend you visit a casino someday. The game you’re thinking of is roulette. Blackjack doesn’t have colors to bet on. Putting it all on black is only theft if you lose. FedEx’s founder famously bet half his employee payroll on black and won. FTX eventually lost.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - kosievdmerwe 2y ago
    Yeah though people tend to argue semantics in this hypothetical. Especially if you win the bet. I definitely consider it akin to theft even if people don't quite want to use the word. And importantly even if you ignore the fact that people aren't being made whole by the bankruptcy's 100% claim, people still won't have gotten their money back for years. So people are still significantly harmed despite the criminal winning some illicit bets.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- floor2 2y ago
  Except, that's how a bank works. The money in your checking account or savings account isn't sitting in a vault, it's being loaned out to other customers of the bank immediately. But when you put money in an FDIC-insured bank account, you have the US Government guaranteeing that you'll get your money back even if the bank's investments of your money go bankrupt. Also, there's a complex set of regulated and audited independent counterparties with transparency and collateral agreements to separate custody, trade settlement, etc. When you put money into a Bahamas based entity that is simultaneously the bank, exchange, broker, and hedgefund, you get none of these things, and so you just have to wait until it collapses and then hope to get your money back after bankruptcy court in a few years.
kstrauser 2y ago
I wouldn't say "plenty". It's still newsworthy when it actually happens. But yes, it's frequent enough that I hope it dissuades at least some would-be scammers not to risk it.
- dylan604 2y ago
  At the most it will dissuade would-be scammers in the US. Anyone operating from outside US jurisdiction will just laugh at the arrogance from thinking they could get away with it. It's not like international scammers are smarter about getting caught, they just know there's nothing anyone can do to them if they do get exposed.

Plenty of high level executives get punished, iff they hurt other rich people. FTX took from investors. You can steal from poor people all you want, but if you steal from the rich you go to jail.

robertlagrant 2y ago

I thought the main problem was that FTX commingled regular deposits (i.e. normal people's funds) with at-risk investments. I.e. they're mostly guilty because there wasn't a wall protecting the deposits.

WrongAssumption 2y ago
If I have a pile of money, and add your money to my pile and go to the blackjack table put it all on black without your consent. That’s theft.
- aidenn0 2y ago
  > ...go to the blackjack table put it all on black... I'm guessing you're not very familiar with games of chance.
  - jancsika 2y ago
    Well, neither was FTX, so how is this not apt? :)
  - mbreese 2y ago
    Or they didn’t understand the game they were playing… sounds like a perfectly mixed metaphor to me.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - soulofmischief 2y ago
    Personally, I put it all on jack. He seems like a trustworthy fella.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  This seems irrelevant to my comment.
  - code_duck 2y ago
    It seems to agree with your comment, though not sure what they intended.
  - NiloCK 2y ago
    The implicit connection is that some of the unprotected deposits that were gambled away belonged to rich people.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      Well, it's just a declaration of what theft is, phrased as though I don't know what theft is. Which is wrong, and also doesn't seem relevant.
      - kosievdmerwe 2y ago
        Not quite true a lot of people seem to think that if you won the roulette spin that you committed no foul. At least in terms of how they argued SBF should be sentenced. So as you said the commingling was a large part of their crime. But they did commit a bunch of straight up theft of customer funds to pay for marketing, political donations or stuff like houses for the employees.
- mchannon 2y ago
  Recommend you visit a casino someday. The game you’re thinking of is roulette. Blackjack doesn’t have colors to bet on. Putting it all on black is only theft if you lose. FedEx’s founder famously bet half his employee payroll on black and won. FTX eventually lost.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- kosievdmerwe 2y ago
  Yeah though people tend to argue semantics in this hypothetical. Especially if you win the bet. I definitely consider it akin to theft even if people don't quite want to use the word. And importantly even if you ignore the fact that people aren't being made whole by the bankruptcy's 100% claim, people still won't have gotten their money back for years. So people are still significantly harmed despite the criminal winning some illicit bets.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
floor2 2y ago
Except, that's how a bank works. The money in your checking account or savings account isn't sitting in a vault, it's being loaned out to other customers of the bank immediately. But when you put money in an FDIC-insured bank account, you have the US Government guaranteeing that you'll get your money back even if the bank's investments of your money go bankrupt. Also, there's a complex set of regulated and audited independent counterparties with transparency and collateral agreements to separate custody, trade settlement, etc. When you put money into a Bahamas based entity that is simultaneously the bank, exchange, broker, and hedgefund, you get none of these things, and so you just have to wait until it collapses and then hope to get your money back after bankruptcy court in a few years.

kstrauser 2y ago

I wouldn't say "plenty". It's still newsworthy when it actually happens. But yes, it's frequent enough that I hope it dissuades at least some would-be scammers not to risk it.

dylan604 2y ago
At the most it will dissuade would-be scammers in the US. Anyone operating from outside US jurisdiction will just laugh at the arrogance from thinking they could get away with it. It's not like international scammers are smarter about getting caught, they just know there's nothing anyone can do to them if they do get exposed.