4 ms·

What does personal autonomy mean if you are not able to make such a decision for yourself?

skyyler 2y ago
“That’s the beauty, because our law requires that doctors test that you’ve made a rational decision,” Zoraya replied. “Doctors have to test: Is my choice rational, or is it my illness talking?” Seems perfectly reasonable to me. The experience of going on a waitlist and not even knowing if you'll be approved, making backups for that eventuality... it paints a very vivid picture of someone at the end of their rope, trying to end the suffering. Other people in the thread are implying it's a mechanism for the state to cull undesirables and that feels like conspiracy theory stuff / media spin to me. The state already has plenty of tools to kill those it disagrees with, why would the slow and messy and disorganised medical system have to be part of it?
- silverquiet 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - jimbob45 2y ago
    in the US that typically comes along with rather radical beliefs about the ability to own firearms which makes suicide rather trivial. There are a number of other levers the US pulls to make suicide particularly undesirable. State-sponsored suicide, like the article describes, would ruin the US' ability to pull those levers.
  - Fauntleroy 2y ago
    Despite my own misgivings about American conservatism, I don't think it's correct or appropriate to suggest that they would prefer for suicidal people to shoot themselves.
    - silverquiet 2y ago
      I didn't mean to suggest such a thing; what I mean is that if someone in the US wants to end their life, they can (and I'll skip any macabre details about how easy it is) do so very simply with a firearm - I believe it is the most successful method. I just find it rather dissonant that the belief that weapons should be so easily available pairs with a supposed respect for life.
- ossobuco 2y ago
  > The state already has plenty of tools to kill those it disagrees with This is not about people the state disagrees with, but about the undesirable of society. The risk is we get to legitimize euthanasia as a way of getting rid of the poor and homeless. I'm absolutely horrified by the direction taken by Canada with regards to this. It is mindblowing and hard to believe for me that 1 in 4 Canadians thinks that assisted suicide should be allowed for the poor[1]. Like, how about getting them out of poverty instead? How about providing every citizen with a dignified life before we consider ways to literally put them out of their misery? Thankfully there aren't enough doctors willing to go on with what seem like the nazi wet dream[2], but I'm left seriously wondering what's wrong with Canadian society. 1: https://www.catholicweekly.com.au/new-research-shows-one-in-four-canadians-want-euthanasia-for-the-poor-and-homeless/ https://www.catholicweekly.com.au/new-research-shows-one-in-... 2: https://nypost.com/2024/02/03/news/canada-halts-assisted-suicide-program-for-mentally-ill-due-to-lack-of-doctors/ https://nypost.com/2024/02/03/news/canada-halts-assisted-sui...
  - tejohnso 2y ago
    > It is mindblowing and hard to believe for me that 1 in 4 Canadians thinks that assisted suicide should be allowed for the poor You think that the poor should have fewer rights than others? I have the right to choose to end my life within the regulations of MAiD. I'd hate to think that I lose that right simply because I'm "poor".
    - ossobuco 2y ago
      What an absolutely ridicolous way to spin this. Now I'm 100% sure you're not poor by the way. Weird that only poor people will get recommendations for assisted suicide. Why aren't middle class families recommended it based on their income? I've heard a good ol' assisted suicide can solve pretty much anything nowadays!
      - tejohnso 2y ago
        First you were talking about what is "allowed". Now you're talking about what is "recommended". But it seems like what is really going on is that you believe that there is some kind of conspiracy to use MAiD to eliminate the poor and you are unable to have a discussion that doesn't take that conspiracy theory as fact.
Optimal_Persona 2y ago
Yeah, how did that Willy S. guy put it? 2B || !2B

“That’s the beauty, because our law requires that doctors test that you’ve made a rational decision,” Zoraya replied. “Doctors have to test: Is my choice rational, or is it my illness talking?” Seems perfectly reasonable to me. The experience of going on a waitlist and not even knowing if you'll be approved, making backups for that eventuality... it paints a very vivid picture of someone at the end of their rope, trying to end the suffering. Other people in the thread are implying it's a mechanism for the state to cull undesirables and that feels like conspiracy theory stuff / media spin to me. The state already has plenty of tools to kill those it disagrees with, why would the slow and messy and disorganised medical system have to be part of it?

silverquiet 2y ago
[flagged]
- jimbob45 2y ago
  in the US that typically comes along with rather radical beliefs about the ability to own firearms which makes suicide rather trivial. There are a number of other levers the US pulls to make suicide particularly undesirable. State-sponsored suicide, like the article describes, would ruin the US' ability to pull those levers.
- Fauntleroy 2y ago
  Despite my own misgivings about American conservatism, I don't think it's correct or appropriate to suggest that they would prefer for suicidal people to shoot themselves.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    I didn't mean to suggest such a thing; what I mean is that if someone in the US wants to end their life, they can (and I'll skip any macabre details about how easy it is) do so very simply with a firearm - I believe it is the most successful method. I just find it rather dissonant that the belief that weapons should be so easily available pairs with a supposed respect for life.
ossobuco 2y ago
> The state already has plenty of tools to kill those it disagrees with This is not about people the state disagrees with, but about the undesirable of society. The risk is we get to legitimize euthanasia as a way of getting rid of the poor and homeless. I'm absolutely horrified by the direction taken by Canada with regards to this. It is mindblowing and hard to believe for me that 1 in 4 Canadians thinks that assisted suicide should be allowed for the poor[1]. Like, how about getting them out of poverty instead? How about providing every citizen with a dignified life before we consider ways to literally put them out of their misery? Thankfully there aren't enough doctors willing to go on with what seem like the nazi wet dream[2], but I'm left seriously wondering what's wrong with Canadian society. 1: https://www.catholicweekly.com.au/new-research-shows-one-in-four-canadians-want-euthanasia-for-the-poor-and-homeless/ https://www.catholicweekly.com.au/new-research-shows-one-in-... 2: https://nypost.com/2024/02/03/news/canada-halts-assisted-suicide-program-for-mentally-ill-due-to-lack-of-doctors/ https://nypost.com/2024/02/03/news/canada-halts-assisted-sui...
- tejohnso 2y ago
  > It is mindblowing and hard to believe for me that 1 in 4 Canadians thinks that assisted suicide should be allowed for the poor You think that the poor should have fewer rights than others? I have the right to choose to end my life within the regulations of MAiD. I'd hate to think that I lose that right simply because I'm "poor".
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    What an absolutely ridicolous way to spin this. Now I'm 100% sure you're not poor by the way. Weird that only poor people will get recommendations for assisted suicide. Why aren't middle class families recommended it based on their income? I've heard a good ol' assisted suicide can solve pretty much anything nowadays!
    - tejohnso 2y ago
      First you were talking about what is "allowed". Now you're talking about what is "recommended". But it seems like what is really going on is that you believe that there is some kind of conspiracy to use MAiD to eliminate the poor and you are unable to have a discussion that doesn't take that conspiracy theory as fact.

Optimal_Persona 2y ago

Yeah, how did that Willy S. guy put it? 2B || !2B