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I'm not that worried about this. It's pretty hard to kill an orca, and whoever decides to be a vigilante about this won't invest in some kind of custom orca-kil

by avalys 2y ago

I'm not that worried about this. It's pretty hard to kill an orca, and whoever decides to be a vigilante about this won't invest in some kind of custom orca-killing solution, they'll just use what they have on hand. And everyone has guns. I suspect shooting the orcas with a handgun or small rifle round would have a deterrent effect, but probably not kill them. They're smart and social, so maybe "word" would spread quickly that this activity isn't so fun anymore.

krisoft 2y ago
> they'll just use what they have on hand. And everyone has guns. That is exactly what I am worried about. I consider that to be pretty bad situation for the orca. One which they have no way to anticipate. And as you say that is the “simplest” solution so that is the most likely one to be employed if someone becomes aggitated. > … but probably not kill them That part I don’t know about. I suspect getting shot is pretty dangerous. There is some chance of it killing the orca within minutes (if it hits their brain or a major blood vessel), but i agre that the probability of that is low. Then there is the chance of it slowly killing the orca (either because the wound gets infected or because it interferes with their hunting/feeding such that the animal starves to death.) All around I would like to very much avoid this outcome.
- Intralexical 2y ago
  While shooting orcas would obviously …not be a good outcome, might it put your mind at ease to know that there may be many reasons to think the comment you replied to might be correct? - Bullets don't really work underwater. High-powered rounds get shredded on impact, and low-power rounds get slowed to non-lethal speeds. The bang might scare them though. [1] - Guns are designed for humans, and whales are big. Just the blubber under their skin adds several inches. [2] The physics of avoiding heat loss further implies that more important organs and blood vessels should have proportionally more blubber over them. With enough armor, penetration isn't really "low probability" but more "physically not possible". [3] - Vital orca organs seem to be, surprise, well-protected. Their abdominal/thoracic cavity looks like a small volume inside a very large body, with particularly a lot of space on their back. The brain is not only protected by lots of blubber but also thick bone. [4] Based on this diagram, only the melon and eyes really look vulnerable. - Orcas take care of disabled orcas! [5] If a wound interferes with hunting/feeding, then someone stays back to keep them company/protect them until the rest of the pod can bring them food or call them over to eat. It might suck, but they shouldn't starve. Apparently they do this even for strangers from different pods too? If an orca still starves to death because nobody will do that for them, then I guess they were probably a bit of an asshole… So guns won't even work on water. Then even if it hits them directly it probably won't/physically can't hurt them. They're protected by water, blubber, size, and thick bone plate, any one of which on its own would be enough to stop most bullets. And even if they do get seriously wounded they have support networks that won't let them starve. --- 1: https://mythresults.com/episode34 https://mythresults.com/episode34 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca#Characteristics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca#Characteristics 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_depth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_depth 4: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Orca_internal_anatomy.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Orca_internal_anatom... 5: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=orcas%20caring%20for%20disabled https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=orcas%20caring%20for%2... --- > All around I would like to very much avoid this outcome. Cash in on hysteria by selling denatonium benzoate bath bombs. Win-win.
  - krisoft 2y ago
    > might it put your mind at ease to know that there may be many reasons to think the comment you replied to might be correct? Yes. Thank you very much. :) All very interesting and very good points. Thank you for the detailed answer.

by avalys 2y ago

krisoft 2y ago

> they'll just use what they have on hand. And everyone has guns. That is exactly what I am worried about. I consider that to be pretty bad situation for the orca. One which they have no way to anticipate. And as you say that is the “simplest” solution so that is the most likely one to be employed if someone becomes aggitated. > … but probably not kill them That part I don’t know about. I suspect getting shot is pretty dangerous. There is some chance of it killing the orca within minutes (if it hits their brain or a major blood vessel), but i agre that the probability of that is low. Then there is the chance of it slowly killing the orca (either because the wound gets infected or because it interferes with their hunting/feeding such that the animal starves to death.) All around I would like to very much avoid this outcome.

Intralexical 2y ago
While shooting orcas would obviously …not be a good outcome, might it put your mind at ease to know that there may be many reasons to think the comment you replied to might be correct? - Bullets don't really work underwater. High-powered rounds get shredded on impact, and low-power rounds get slowed to non-lethal speeds. The bang might scare them though. [1] - Guns are designed for humans, and whales are big. Just the blubber under their skin adds several inches. [2] The physics of avoiding heat loss further implies that more important organs and blood vessels should have proportionally more blubber over them. With enough armor, penetration isn't really "low probability" but more "physically not possible". [3] - Vital orca organs seem to be, surprise, well-protected. Their abdominal/thoracic cavity looks like a small volume inside a very large body, with particularly a lot of space on their back. The brain is not only protected by lots of blubber but also thick bone. [4] Based on this diagram, only the melon and eyes really look vulnerable. - Orcas take care of disabled orcas! [5] If a wound interferes with hunting/feeding, then someone stays back to keep them company/protect them until the rest of the pod can bring them food or call them over to eat. It might suck, but they shouldn't starve. Apparently they do this even for strangers from different pods too? If an orca still starves to death because nobody will do that for them, then I guess they were probably a bit of an asshole… So guns won't even work on water. Then even if it hits them directly it probably won't/physically can't hurt them. They're protected by water, blubber, size, and thick bone plate, any one of which on its own would be enough to stop most bullets. And even if they do get seriously wounded they have support networks that won't let them starve. --- 1: https://mythresults.com/episode34 https://mythresults.com/episode34 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca#Characteristics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca#Characteristics 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_depth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_depth 4: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Orca_internal_anatomy.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Orca_internal_anatom... 5: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=orcas%20caring%20for%20disabled https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=orcas%20caring%20for%2... --- > All around I would like to very much avoid this outcome. Cash in on hysteria by selling denatonium benzoate bath bombs. Win-win.
- krisoft 2y ago
  > might it put your mind at ease to know that there may be many reasons to think the comment you replied to might be correct? Yes. Thank you very much. :) All very interesting and very good points. Thank you for the detailed answer.