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The big issue is that we can't communicate to the orcas that this is not ok. We could very easily destroy them, but of course nobody wants to do that. You coul

The big issue is that we can't communicate to the orcas that this is not ok. We could very easily destroy them, but of course nobody wants to do that. You could try to spritz them with a water bottle but I suspect they wouldn't notice. Same with the rolled up newspaper trick. It would just dissolve in the water. I'm very worried about these orcas ever since I heard about them. It is probably fun for them what they are doing but the longer they are at it the more likely is that some vigilante decides to stop them. And given the lack of good soft options that lesson will be probably a violent one. They don't even know how scary the bear is they are poking on the regular. Hope they will go bored of it before they get hurt.

toast0 2y ago
> You could try to spritz them with a water bottle but I suspect they wouldn't notice. One of my cats responds well to the water bottle; mostly I just have to pick it up, I don't even have to spritz it, and I certainly don't have to actually squirt her. The other cat though, could care less, if I get him anywhere other than the face, he just is like 'oh, being naughty did make me thirsty, thanks for the drink'
- mynameisvlad 2y ago
  Them cat reacts because you have sprayed them at least once with it and it associated negative emotions to that action. It’s not like cats and orcas see a water bottle at birth and immediately know what it is and what will happen if it’s used against them. That is an entirely learned behavior from what you have done to them in the past with it. You can attach negative and positive associations with most items if you consistently do something. The OP’s point is that spraying them will do nothing because they are literally in a giant pool of water already. A spritz is literally not going to affect them at all. They probably wouldn’t even notice it happening nor be able to associate an emotion to it.
  - krisoft 2y ago
    > point is that spraying them will do nothing because they are literally in a giant pool of water already Yeah. I mean obviously the water bottle and the rolled up newspaper examples were jokes. But I believe it would be much better for them if we could find their killer whale equivalent. Without that our options are "doing nothing, hoping they stop harassing boats", and "terminate them with extreme prejudice". We don't shoot Fido in the head on the first infraction. (At least most people agree on that with some exceptions [1]) But that is largely because we have better options. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/apr/26/trump-kristi-noem-shot-dog-and-goat-book https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/apr/26/trump-kristi-n...
avalys 2y ago
I'm not that worried about this. It's pretty hard to kill an orca, and whoever decides to be a vigilante about this won't invest in some kind of custom orca-killing solution, they'll just use what they have on hand. And everyone has guns. I suspect shooting the orcas with a handgun or small rifle round would have a deterrent effect, but probably not kill them. They're smart and social, so maybe "word" would spread quickly that this activity isn't so fun anymore.
- krisoft 2y ago
  > they'll just use what they have on hand. And everyone has guns. That is exactly what I am worried about. I consider that to be pretty bad situation for the orca. One which they have no way to anticipate. And as you say that is the “simplest” solution so that is the most likely one to be employed if someone becomes aggitated. > … but probably not kill them That part I don’t know about. I suspect getting shot is pretty dangerous. There is some chance of it killing the orca within minutes (if it hits their brain or a major blood vessel), but i agre that the probability of that is low. Then there is the chance of it slowly killing the orca (either because the wound gets infected or because it interferes with their hunting/feeding such that the animal starves to death.) All around I would like to very much avoid this outcome.
  - Intralexical 2y ago
    While shooting orcas would obviously …not be a good outcome, might it put your mind at ease to know that there may be many reasons to think the comment you replied to might be correct? - Bullets don't really work underwater. High-powered rounds get shredded on impact, and low-power rounds get slowed to non-lethal speeds. The bang might scare them though. [1] - Guns are designed for humans, and whales are big. Just the blubber under their skin adds several inches. [2] The physics of avoiding heat loss further implies that more important organs and blood vessels should have proportionally more blubber over them. With enough armor, penetration isn't really "low probability" but more "physically not possible". [3] - Vital orca organs seem to be, surprise, well-protected. Their abdominal/thoracic cavity looks like a small volume inside a very large body, with particularly a lot of space on their back. The brain is not only protected by lots of blubber but also thick bone. [4] Based on this diagram, only the melon and eyes really look vulnerable. - Orcas take care of disabled orcas! [5] If a wound interferes with hunting/feeding, then someone stays back to keep them company/protect them until the rest of the pod can bring them food or call them over to eat. It might suck, but they shouldn't starve. Apparently they do this even for strangers from different pods too? If an orca still starves to death because nobody will do that for them, then I guess they were probably a bit of an asshole… So guns won't even work on water. Then even if it hits them directly it probably won't/physically can't hurt them. They're protected by water, blubber, size, and thick bone plate, any one of which on its own would be enough to stop most bullets. And even if they do get seriously wounded they have support networks that won't let them starve. --- 1: https://mythresults.com/episode34 https://mythresults.com/episode34 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca#Characteristics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca#Characteristics 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_depth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_depth 4: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Orca_internal_anatomy.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Orca_internal_anatom... 5: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=orcas%20caring%20for%20disabled https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=orcas%20caring%20for%2... --- > All around I would like to very much avoid this outcome. Cash in on hysteria by selling denatonium benzoate bath bombs. Win-win.
dsizzle 2y ago
We could send out this Kiwi orca body slammer haha https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/video-body-slam-orca/ https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/video-body-slam-orc...
catlikesshrimp 2y ago
I agree with this content, but the way you put it you might actually encourage people wanting to hurt then to do it already. You can try something similar to the newspaper trick. Electric shocks come to mind. People could rent a Killer-Whale-Taser® before setting sail Another alternative could be something they perceive as foul taste/smell
- krisoft 2y ago
  > the way you put it you might actually encourage people wanting to hurt then to do it already I don’t think people are waiting for my permission, but if they are: don’t hurt the orcas. > Electric shocks come to mind. … Another alternative could be something they perceive as foul taste/smell. Yeah those are options. I was also thinking about sudden noise, like a waterproof firecracker. The problem with all of these is that without testing it is at best a guess how effective they will be. Imagine you set the taser to the lowest setting and you trigger it and the whole pod of whales just die. Oops they are more sensitive to electric shocks we thought. Or you dump a bucket of capcaisin on them, and they just… don’t care? So you can imagine many level/dosage
- krisoft 2y ago
  > the way you put it you might actually encourage people wanting to hurt then to do it already I don’t think people are waiting for my permission, but if they are: don’t hurt the orcas. > Electric shocks come to mind. … Another alternative could be something they perceive as foul taste/smell. Yeah those are options. I was also thinking about sudden noise, like a waterproof firecracker. The problem with all of these is that without testing it is at best a guess how effective they will be. Imagine you set the taser to the lowest setting and you trigger it and the whole pod of whales just die. Oops they are more sensitive to electric shocks we thought. Or you dump a bucket of capcaisin on them, and they just… don’t care? Without carefull calibration and tests it is easy to fail in either direction, and either hurting the whales too much or not doing enough for them to notice.
Intralexical 2y ago
> You could try to spritz them with a water bottle but I suspect they wouldn't notice. Same with the rolled up newspaper trick. It would just dissolve in the water. Simply adapt your boats to be foul-tasting, like a normal species. Spritz them with capsaicin, denatonium benzoate, skunk secretions, etc.
- barfbagginus 2y ago
  I'm all for spritzing millionaire yachts with skunk secretions!
SkyPuncher 2y ago
We could probably redirect it with positive reinforcement training. Give them something they really like (like tasty food) when they come close to the boat but not actually bumping it. With repetition, they’ll figure out it’s better to not hit the boats.

toast0 2y ago

> You could try to spritz them with a water bottle but I suspect they wouldn't notice. One of my cats responds well to the water bottle; mostly I just have to pick it up, I don't even have to spritz it, and I certainly don't have to actually squirt her. The other cat though, could care less, if I get him anywhere other than the face, he just is like 'oh, being naughty did make me thirsty, thanks for the drink'

mynameisvlad 2y ago
Them cat reacts because you have sprayed them at least once with it and it associated negative emotions to that action. It’s not like cats and orcas see a water bottle at birth and immediately know what it is and what will happen if it’s used against them. That is an entirely learned behavior from what you have done to them in the past with it. You can attach negative and positive associations with most items if you consistently do something. The OP’s point is that spraying them will do nothing because they are literally in a giant pool of water already. A spritz is literally not going to affect them at all. They probably wouldn’t even notice it happening nor be able to associate an emotion to it.
- krisoft 2y ago
  > point is that spraying them will do nothing because they are literally in a giant pool of water already Yeah. I mean obviously the water bottle and the rolled up newspaper examples were jokes. But I believe it would be much better for them if we could find their killer whale equivalent. Without that our options are "doing nothing, hoping they stop harassing boats", and "terminate them with extreme prejudice". We don't shoot Fido in the head on the first infraction. (At least most people agree on that with some exceptions [1]) But that is largely because we have better options. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/apr/26/trump-kristi-noem-shot-dog-and-goat-book https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/apr/26/trump-kristi-n...

avalys 2y ago

I'm not that worried about this. It's pretty hard to kill an orca, and whoever decides to be a vigilante about this won't invest in some kind of custom orca-killing solution, they'll just use what they have on hand. And everyone has guns. I suspect shooting the orcas with a handgun or small rifle round would have a deterrent effect, but probably not kill them. They're smart and social, so maybe "word" would spread quickly that this activity isn't so fun anymore.

krisoft 2y ago
> they'll just use what they have on hand. And everyone has guns. That is exactly what I am worried about. I consider that to be pretty bad situation for the orca. One which they have no way to anticipate. And as you say that is the “simplest” solution so that is the most likely one to be employed if someone becomes aggitated. > … but probably not kill them That part I don’t know about. I suspect getting shot is pretty dangerous. There is some chance of it killing the orca within minutes (if it hits their brain or a major blood vessel), but i agre that the probability of that is low. Then there is the chance of it slowly killing the orca (either because the wound gets infected or because it interferes with their hunting/feeding such that the animal starves to death.) All around I would like to very much avoid this outcome.
- Intralexical 2y ago
  While shooting orcas would obviously …not be a good outcome, might it put your mind at ease to know that there may be many reasons to think the comment you replied to might be correct? - Bullets don't really work underwater. High-powered rounds get shredded on impact, and low-power rounds get slowed to non-lethal speeds. The bang might scare them though. [1] - Guns are designed for humans, and whales are big. Just the blubber under their skin adds several inches. [2] The physics of avoiding heat loss further implies that more important organs and blood vessels should have proportionally more blubber over them. With enough armor, penetration isn't really "low probability" but more "physically not possible". [3] - Vital orca organs seem to be, surprise, well-protected. Their abdominal/thoracic cavity looks like a small volume inside a very large body, with particularly a lot of space on their back. The brain is not only protected by lots of blubber but also thick bone. [4] Based on this diagram, only the melon and eyes really look vulnerable. - Orcas take care of disabled orcas! [5] If a wound interferes with hunting/feeding, then someone stays back to keep them company/protect them until the rest of the pod can bring them food or call them over to eat. It might suck, but they shouldn't starve. Apparently they do this even for strangers from different pods too? If an orca still starves to death because nobody will do that for them, then I guess they were probably a bit of an asshole… So guns won't even work on water. Then even if it hits them directly it probably won't/physically can't hurt them. They're protected by water, blubber, size, and thick bone plate, any one of which on its own would be enough to stop most bullets. And even if they do get seriously wounded they have support networks that won't let them starve. --- 1: https://mythresults.com/episode34 https://mythresults.com/episode34 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca#Characteristics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca#Characteristics 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_depth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_depth 4: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Orca_internal_anatomy.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Orca_internal_anatom... 5: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=orcas%20caring%20for%20disabled https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=orcas%20caring%20for%2... --- > All around I would like to very much avoid this outcome. Cash in on hysteria by selling denatonium benzoate bath bombs. Win-win.

dsizzle 2y ago

We could send out this Kiwi orca body slammer haha https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/video-body-slam-orca/ https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/video-body-slam-orc...

catlikesshrimp 2y ago

I agree with this content, but the way you put it you might actually encourage people wanting to hurt then to do it already. You can try something similar to the newspaper trick. Electric shocks come to mind. People could rent a Killer-Whale-Taser® before setting sail Another alternative could be something they perceive as foul taste/smell

krisoft 2y ago
> the way you put it you might actually encourage people wanting to hurt then to do it already I don’t think people are waiting for my permission, but if they are: don’t hurt the orcas. > Electric shocks come to mind. … Another alternative could be something they perceive as foul taste/smell. Yeah those are options. I was also thinking about sudden noise, like a waterproof firecracker. The problem with all of these is that without testing it is at best a guess how effective they will be. Imagine you set the taser to the lowest setting and you trigger it and the whole pod of whales just die. Oops they are more sensitive to electric shocks we thought. Or you dump a bucket of capcaisin on them, and they just… don’t care? So you can imagine many level/dosage
krisoft 2y ago
> the way you put it you might actually encourage people wanting to hurt then to do it already I don’t think people are waiting for my permission, but if they are: don’t hurt the orcas. > Electric shocks come to mind. … Another alternative could be something they perceive as foul taste/smell. Yeah those are options. I was also thinking about sudden noise, like a waterproof firecracker. The problem with all of these is that without testing it is at best a guess how effective they will be. Imagine you set the taser to the lowest setting and you trigger it and the whole pod of whales just die. Oops they are more sensitive to electric shocks we thought. Or you dump a bucket of capcaisin on them, and they just… don’t care? Without carefull calibration and tests it is easy to fail in either direction, and either hurting the whales too much or not doing enough for them to notice.

Intralexical 2y ago

> You could try to spritz them with a water bottle but I suspect they wouldn't notice. Same with the rolled up newspaper trick. It would just dissolve in the water. Simply adapt your boats to be foul-tasting, like a normal species. Spritz them with capsaicin, denatonium benzoate, skunk secretions, etc.

barfbagginus 2y ago
I'm all for spritzing millionaire yachts with skunk secretions!

SkyPuncher 2y ago

We could probably redirect it with positive reinforcement training. Give them something they really like (like tasty food) when they come close to the boat but not actually bumping it. With repetition, they’ll figure out it’s better to not hit the boats.