3 ms·

> Ars made up the thing about backups being deleted, which makes an exciting headline, but it doesn't appear at all reliable or based in reporting, just conject

> Ars made up the thing about backups being deleted, which makes an exciting headline, but it doesn't appear at all reliable or based in reporting, just conjecture. So you just label a reputable news outlet as fake news and then move on..?

joshuamorton 2y ago
I'm saying Ars is jumping to conclusions a bit too quickly. You can call that fake news if you want, I didn't.
- randmeerkat 2y ago
  “This is an isolated, ‘one-of-a-kind occurrence’ that has never before occurred with any of Google Cloud’s clients globally. This should not have happened. Google Cloud has identified the events that led to this disruption and taken measures to ensure this does not happen again.” “UniSuper had backups in place with an additional service provider. These backups have minimised data loss, and significantly improved the ability of UniSuper and Google Cloud to complete the restoration.” https://www.unisuper.com.au/about-us/media-centre/2024/a-joint-statement-from-unisuper-and-google-cloud https://www.unisuper.com.au/about-us/media-centre/2024/a-joi... Those quotes were pulled directly from UniSuper’s website. Google deleted an account, lost the data, and then took 13 days to recover the pension fund from data stored on another data provider. Maybe you should consider that your employment at Google is damaging your objectivity.
  - joshuamorton 2y ago
    Can you please quote in particular where unisuper mentions that the backups at Google were deleted? Like I keep saying, nothing in the primary sources supports the claims either that backups or that the accounts were deleted. You've jumped to a particular conclusion, and seem unwilling adjust that conclusion in light of new evidence.
    - randmeerkat 2y ago
      It was quoted above, you seem unwilling to accept the facts.
      - joshuamorton 2y ago
        You quoted two paragraphs, none of which mentioned either Google missing backups, or unisupers account being deleted. I'm fact, what you quoted aligns perfectly with what I've been suggesting the whole time. You're making a strong claim, I'm asking you to source it specifically. Instead you're taking a statement from which you can draw multiple conclusions, and picking one (that has been contradicted repeatedly) and telling me I'm unwilling to accept the facts. But they aren't facts, they're your interpretation of vague statements. I'm happy to accept facts. Facts like "Data backups that were stored in Google Cloud Storage in the same region were not impacted by the deletion" are very easy to understand and difficult to misinterpret. Do you disagree? Like, even the additional reporting the ars article links to (https://danielcompton.net/google-cloud-unisuper https://danielcompton.net/google-cloud-unisuper, https://x.com/milesward/status/1792909048830214607?t=Vu__q1hTF9F77ihvtXDFVA&s=19 https://x.com/milesward/status/1792909048830214607?t=Vu__q1h...) basically contradicts both their and your conclusions. You're weirdly hung up on this.
        randmeerkat 2y ago
        “UniSuper had backups in place with an additional service provider. These backups have minimised data loss, and significantly improved the ability of UniSuper and Google Cloud to complete the restoration.” Again, the same quote I already quoted above, direct from UniSuper’s website. They needed to use their backups at a different cloud provider, as GCP’s data wasn’t recoverable. I don’t know why you’re arguing so strongly against this.
        joshuamorton 2y ago
        That they used external backups doesn't actually imply anything about the GCS backups being unavailable. And Google's press release explicitly notes that unisuper used both. (And there's all kinds of reasons to have used both, both good and bad) Put formally, we have statements that - 1. A and B exist - 2. A was used - 3. A and B were used Your conclusion from these statements is that, because (2) A was used, therefore B does not exist. Hopefully putting it like this makes it clear why I'm so confused.

joshuamorton 2y ago

I'm saying Ars is jumping to conclusions a bit too quickly. You can call that fake news if you want, I didn't.

randmeerkat 2y ago
“This is an isolated, ‘one-of-a-kind occurrence’ that has never before occurred with any of Google Cloud’s clients globally. This should not have happened. Google Cloud has identified the events that led to this disruption and taken measures to ensure this does not happen again.” “UniSuper had backups in place with an additional service provider. These backups have minimised data loss, and significantly improved the ability of UniSuper and Google Cloud to complete the restoration.” https://www.unisuper.com.au/about-us/media-centre/2024/a-joint-statement-from-unisuper-and-google-cloud https://www.unisuper.com.au/about-us/media-centre/2024/a-joi... Those quotes were pulled directly from UniSuper’s website. Google deleted an account, lost the data, and then took 13 days to recover the pension fund from data stored on another data provider. Maybe you should consider that your employment at Google is damaging your objectivity.
- joshuamorton 2y ago
  Can you please quote in particular where unisuper mentions that the backups at Google were deleted? Like I keep saying, nothing in the primary sources supports the claims either that backups or that the accounts were deleted. You've jumped to a particular conclusion, and seem unwilling adjust that conclusion in light of new evidence.
  - randmeerkat 2y ago
    It was quoted above, you seem unwilling to accept the facts.
    - joshuamorton 2y ago
      You quoted two paragraphs, none of which mentioned either Google missing backups, or unisupers account being deleted. I'm fact, what you quoted aligns perfectly with what I've been suggesting the whole time. You're making a strong claim, I'm asking you to source it specifically. Instead you're taking a statement from which you can draw multiple conclusions, and picking one (that has been contradicted repeatedly) and telling me I'm unwilling to accept the facts. But they aren't facts, they're your interpretation of vague statements. I'm happy to accept facts. Facts like "Data backups that were stored in Google Cloud Storage in the same region were not impacted by the deletion" are very easy to understand and difficult to misinterpret. Do you disagree? Like, even the additional reporting the ars article links to (https://danielcompton.net/google-cloud-unisuper https://danielcompton.net/google-cloud-unisuper, https://x.com/milesward/status/1792909048830214607?t=Vu__q1hTF9F77ihvtXDFVA&s=19 https://x.com/milesward/status/1792909048830214607?t=Vu__q1h...) basically contradicts both their and your conclusions. You're weirdly hung up on this.
      - randmeerkat 2y ago
        “UniSuper had backups in place with an additional service provider. These backups have minimised data loss, and significantly improved the ability of UniSuper and Google Cloud to complete the restoration.” Again, the same quote I already quoted above, direct from UniSuper’s website. They needed to use their backups at a different cloud provider, as GCP’s data wasn’t recoverable. I don’t know why you’re arguing so strongly against this.
        joshuamorton 2y ago
        That they used external backups doesn't actually imply anything about the GCS backups being unavailable. And Google's press release explicitly notes that unisuper used both. (And there's all kinds of reasons to have used both, both good and bad) Put formally, we have statements that - 1. A and B exist - 2. A was used - 3. A and B were used Your conclusion from these statements is that, because (2) A was used, therefore B does not exist. Hopefully putting it like this makes it clear why I'm so confused.