7 ms·

Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

83 points by lt 14y ago

crisnoble 14y ago
I clicked around for quite some time and never found anything resembling screenshot. Do they really require me to download and install just to see how the app looks? Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe I am naive for wanting a screenshot. Either way I probably will never find out what it looks like...
- eCa 14y ago
  A click away is this comparison with the beta: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/08/visual-studio-11-user-interface-updates-coming-in-rc.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/08/visu...
  - crisnoble 14y ago
    I will eat my words. Found this too: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/29/visual-studio-dark-theme.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/29/visu... I actually quite like the darkness.
    - headbiznatch 14y ago
      It's the Blend interface and I dig it too. But I like dark windows and stuff in general - I know it's not for everyone.
    - aninteger 14y ago
      Looks like this is shaping up to be the "Maddox Visual Studio, the best Visual Studio on the internet". Capital letters, black backgrounds, now we just need insulting error messages full of manliness.
      - CamperBob2 14y ago
        I might be OK with the ALL CAPS menu titles if I understood the rationale behind them. Has this been discussed officially anywhere? Because if not, I can't get beyond the nagging idea that MS is playing some kind of joke that I don't get, and that's a distraction that I don't need.
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
        MichaelGG 14y ago
        The best explanation I can come up with is that there's a ton of pressure for Metro this and Metro that. Partners at Microsoft must be upset Apple's market cap is twice Microsoft's, and well, they're gonna fix that no matter what. ALL CAPS is a highly visible thing they can backpedal on; it's supposed to be sacrificed. Then they can say "See, 95% of the comments were about the menus, and we changed it, so now we're all good!" Deflects from more serious criticism, as this comment demonstrates.
        bgrainger 14y ago
        There's a registry value you can set to go back to normal (title case) menus: http://www.richard-banks.org/2012/06/how-to-prevent-visual-studio-2012-all.html http://www.richard-banks.org/2012/06/how-to-prevent-visual-s...
        jasomill 14y ago
        Nice. Now to figure out how to restore the ordinary window chrome, as the "active" and "inactive" states of the new title bar are identical. Try as I may, I can think of no conceivable rationale for this. Metro notwithstanding, this makes about as much sense as replacing project "files" with "friends"...
        bztzt 14y ago
        They're there to distinguish the menus from their surroundings, since they want to avoid using lines etc. to do that.
  - apike 14y ago
    I find it strange that they've moved to all-caps for menu titles (FILE, EDIT, VIEW...), especially considering Microsoft's recent uses of good typography. All-caps is a tradeoff where you take away the identifiable shape of a word to make it draw more attention. You could argue that menu titles would be the absolute worst place to use all-caps.
    - cpeterso 14y ago
      The ALL CAPS MENU TITLES are supposedly "more Metro-like", even though many Metro screenshots are all-lowercase and the Metro motto is "content before chrome." I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't made their menu titles disappear until you move the mouse near them (like Mac OS X's X-+ window buttons). That sounds like the "hide the UI so it looks good but is less usable" style Microsoft likes.
      - kristianp 14y ago
        I installed the beta, which had all-caps in some of the headers. Initially I was annoyed that Microsoft has to spend so much time on changing the look of every edition of visual studio, but when I ran it, I actually liked the grey colour and the ALL CAPS.
      - DavidAbrams 14y ago
        Microsoft is merely following Apple's shitty lead on that. Microsoft is finding new ways to hinder usage all over the place. The "+" symbols in Explorer that used to tell you which folders had contents are missing now. Oh, unless you happen to roll the cursor into the left pane; then they suddenly appear. WTF.
      - jasomill 14y ago
        There's an extension[1] that does this. I'm now tempted to install it, at least until I find a way to back out the SCREAMING new menus. With that said, I've been using the beta for a couple months and it seems both snappier and more stable than 2010. [1] http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/bdbcffca-32a6-4034-8e89-c31b86ad4813 http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/bdbcffca-32a6-...
- jaredsohn 14y ago
  eCa beat me to posting this. Also, here are screenshots of the dark theme: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/29/visual-studio-dark-theme.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/29/visu...
  - cowkingdeluxe 14y ago
    Interesting, those colors are pretty similar to my custom VS2010 theme: http://i.imgur.com/bLOxQ.png http://i.imgur.com/bLOxQ.png Although in VS2010 as far as I know you can't change the colors of the explorer menus and such, but it appears in those new screenshots that you can in VS2012.
    - bjg 14y ago
      Not sure what you meant by the "Explorer menus and such" But the chrome is theme-able. http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/20cd93a2-c435-4d00-a797-499f16402378 http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/20cd93a2-c435-...
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
mark-r 14y ago
Have they backpedaled at all on their decision to not build executables for XP? I couldn't find any mention on the Jason Zander blog, so I assume not.
- josephcooney 14y ago
  AFAIK this restriction only existed in the 'express' versions of Visual Studio 2012.
  - bgrainger 14y ago
    This OP is referring to this issue: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/690617/bug-apps-created-with-crt-and-mfc-vnext-11-cannot-be-used-on-windows-xp-sp3 https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/... The C++ Runtime Library doesn't support XP, so C++ programs compiled with Visual Studio 2012 can't run on Windows XP. (It is possible to work around this by statically linking and overriding some CRT functions, as detailed here: http://tedwvc.wordpress.com/ http://tedwvc.wordpress.com/) You can keep using the Visual Studio 2010 C++ compiler (and target XP), but then you can't use any of the new C++11 features supported in VS2012. .NET Framework 4.5 RC also doesn't support XP (see "System requirements" at http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=29909 http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=2990...), so C#/VB.NET programs targeting .NET 4.5 can't be run on XP either.
atesti 14y ago
Why is it so hard to keep some of the "theming" technology in the product and give us a checkbox to renable the old, usable and beautiful design? I think I'll pass on this version. Heck, even VS2008 has everything I need right now.
- mark-r 14y ago
  You'll miss out on some C++11 features. That might be a good thing though, we've already run into a vector bug in VS2010 because of it.
eps 14y ago
Is it still incapable of assembling XP-compatible binaries?
- ayiteddybear 14y ago
  you can compile your program for windows xp. only the "express edition" is "metro-only"
- andyjohnson0 14y ago
  See http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4052230 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4052230
GlennS 14y ago
And all I want to know is: will this version have input lag?
- skeletonjelly 14y ago
  Can you elaborate?
  - TeHCrAzY 14y ago
    Editing html in vs2012 beta(?) was quite laggy, with > 4 second delays between keypress and screen update.
    - josteink 14y ago
      Official release notes mentions that performance have been improved compared to the last beta. How much it has improved is not mentioned. Guess you'll have to DL and see for yourself ;)
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
DavidAbrams 14y ago
WTF, Microsoft, WHERE IS THE STAND-ALONE INSTALLER?
FixThisPOSSite 14y ago
Have they fixed any of these problems? http://goldmanosi.blogspot.com/2012/05/visual-studio-is-it-getting-worse-as.html http://goldmanosi.blogspot.com/2012/05/visual-studio-is-it-g...
law 14y ago
For anyone who's interested, here's a list of C++11 features built into VC10 and VC11: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368(v=vs.110).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368(v=vs.110).a...

83 points by lt 14y ago

I clicked around for quite some time and never found anything resembling screenshot. Do they really require me to download and install just to see how the app looks? Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe I am naive for wanting a screenshot. Either way I probably will never find out what it looks like...

eCa 14y ago
A click away is this comparison with the beta: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/08/visual-studio-11-user-interface-updates-coming-in-rc.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/08/visu...
- crisnoble 14y ago
  I will eat my words. Found this too: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/29/visual-studio-dark-theme.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/29/visu... I actually quite like the darkness.
  - headbiznatch 14y ago
    It's the Blend interface and I dig it too. But I like dark windows and stuff in general - I know it's not for everyone.
  - aninteger 14y ago
    Looks like this is shaping up to be the "Maddox Visual Studio, the best Visual Studio on the internet". Capital letters, black backgrounds, now we just need insulting error messages full of manliness.
    - CamperBob2 14y ago
      I might be OK with the ALL CAPS menu titles if I understood the rationale behind them. Has this been discussed officially anywhere? Because if not, I can't get beyond the nagging idea that MS is playing some kind of joke that I don't get, and that's a distraction that I don't need.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - MichaelGG 14y ago
        The best explanation I can come up with is that there's a ton of pressure for Metro this and Metro that. Partners at Microsoft must be upset Apple's market cap is twice Microsoft's, and well, they're gonna fix that no matter what. ALL CAPS is a highly visible thing they can backpedal on; it's supposed to be sacrificed. Then they can say "See, 95% of the comments were about the menus, and we changed it, so now we're all good!" Deflects from more serious criticism, as this comment demonstrates.
      - bgrainger 14y ago
        There's a registry value you can set to go back to normal (title case) menus: http://www.richard-banks.org/2012/06/how-to-prevent-visual-studio-2012-all.html http://www.richard-banks.org/2012/06/how-to-prevent-visual-s...
        jasomill 14y ago
        Nice. Now to figure out how to restore the ordinary window chrome, as the "active" and "inactive" states of the new title bar are identical. Try as I may, I can think of no conceivable rationale for this. Metro notwithstanding, this makes about as much sense as replacing project "files" with "friends"...
      - bztzt 14y ago
        They're there to distinguish the menus from their surroundings, since they want to avoid using lines etc. to do that.
- apike 14y ago
  I find it strange that they've moved to all-caps for menu titles (FILE, EDIT, VIEW...), especially considering Microsoft's recent uses of good typography. All-caps is a tradeoff where you take away the identifiable shape of a word to make it draw more attention. You could argue that menu titles would be the absolute worst place to use all-caps.
  - cpeterso 14y ago
    The ALL CAPS MENU TITLES are supposedly "more Metro-like", even though many Metro screenshots are all-lowercase and the Metro motto is "content before chrome." I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't made their menu titles disappear until you move the mouse near them (like Mac OS X's X-+ window buttons). That sounds like the "hide the UI so it looks good but is less usable" style Microsoft likes.
    - kristianp 14y ago
      I installed the beta, which had all-caps in some of the headers. Initially I was annoyed that Microsoft has to spend so much time on changing the look of every edition of visual studio, but when I ran it, I actually liked the grey colour and the ALL CAPS.
    - DavidAbrams 14y ago
      Microsoft is merely following Apple's shitty lead on that. Microsoft is finding new ways to hinder usage all over the place. The "+" symbols in Explorer that used to tell you which folders had contents are missing now. Oh, unless you happen to roll the cursor into the left pane; then they suddenly appear. WTF.
    - jasomill 14y ago
      There's an extension[1] that does this. I'm now tempted to install it, at least until I find a way to back out the SCREAMING new menus. With that said, I've been using the beta for a couple months and it seems both snappier and more stable than 2010. [1] http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/bdbcffca-32a6-4034-8e89-c31b86ad4813 http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/bdbcffca-32a6-...
jaredsohn 14y ago
eCa beat me to posting this. Also, here are screenshots of the dark theme: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/29/visual-studio-dark-theme.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/29/visu...
- cowkingdeluxe 14y ago
  Interesting, those colors are pretty similar to my custom VS2010 theme: http://i.imgur.com/bLOxQ.png http://i.imgur.com/bLOxQ.png Although in VS2010 as far as I know you can't change the colors of the explorer menus and such, but it appears in those new screenshots that you can in VS2012.
  - bjg 14y ago
    Not sure what you meant by the "Explorer menus and such" But the chrome is theme-able. http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/20cd93a2-c435-4d00-a797-499f16402378 http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/20cd93a2-c435-...

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

mark-r 14y ago

Have they backpedaled at all on their decision to not build executables for XP? I couldn't find any mention on the Jason Zander blog, so I assume not.

josephcooney 14y ago
AFAIK this restriction only existed in the 'express' versions of Visual Studio 2012.
- bgrainger 14y ago
  This OP is referring to this issue: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/690617/bug-apps-created-with-crt-and-mfc-vnext-11-cannot-be-used-on-windows-xp-sp3 https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/... The C++ Runtime Library doesn't support XP, so C++ programs compiled with Visual Studio 2012 can't run on Windows XP. (It is possible to work around this by statically linking and overriding some CRT functions, as detailed here: http://tedwvc.wordpress.com/ http://tedwvc.wordpress.com/) You can keep using the Visual Studio 2010 C++ compiler (and target XP), but then you can't use any of the new C++11 features supported in VS2012. .NET Framework 4.5 RC also doesn't support XP (see "System requirements" at http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=29909 http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=2990...), so C#/VB.NET programs targeting .NET 4.5 can't be run on XP either.

atesti 14y ago

Why is it so hard to keep some of the "theming" technology in the product and give us a checkbox to renable the old, usable and beautiful design? I think I'll pass on this version. Heck, even VS2008 has everything I need right now.

mark-r 14y ago
You'll miss out on some C++11 features. That might be a good thing though, we've already run into a vector bug in VS2010 because of it.

eps 14y ago

Is it still incapable of assembling XP-compatible binaries?

ayiteddybear 14y ago
you can compile your program for windows xp. only the "express edition" is "metro-only"
andyjohnson0 14y ago
See http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4052230 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4052230

GlennS 14y ago

And all I want to know is: will this version have input lag?

skeletonjelly 14y ago
Can you elaborate?
- TeHCrAzY 14y ago
  Editing html in vs2012 beta(?) was quite laggy, with > 4 second delays between keypress and screen update.
  - josteink 14y ago
    Official release notes mentions that performance have been improved compared to the last beta. How much it has improved is not mentioned. Guess you'll have to DL and see for yourself ;)

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

DavidAbrams 14y ago

WTF, Microsoft, WHERE IS THE STAND-ALONE INSTALLER?

FixThisPOSSite 14y ago

Have they fixed any of these problems? http://goldmanosi.blogspot.com/2012/05/visual-studio-is-it-getting-worse-as.html http://goldmanosi.blogspot.com/2012/05/visual-studio-is-it-g...

law 14y ago

For anyone who's interested, here's a list of C++11 features built into VC10 and VC11: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368(v=vs.110).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368(v=vs.110).a...