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> Debian: something I can trust, that gets out of my way, and changes slowly. Wholeheartedly agree. Debian has won the distro wars in my opinion. Their massive

> Debian: something I can trust, that gets out of my way, and changes slowly. Wholeheartedly agree. Debian has won the distro wars in my opinion. Their massive effort in safety and not breaking things means I can use stable as a "it just works" tool and focus on my actual work/fun.

dmz73 2y ago
Unfortunately, Debian is like Linux on desktop, always 80% there. You just cannot trust that plain Debian will get it right, even if it works that one time you install it. Two most recent issues that made me change to something else: 1) VLC in Debian is modified so it cannot play RTSP streams so you cannot watch video from your security camera. Windows VLC wroks. Flatpak VLC works. 2) Debian kernel update in point release broke NVIDIA driver so you cannot even see your desktop. Debian STABLE is just Linux kernel with old software. If it doesn't work now then it will definitely not work for next 2 years and if it does work now it can break at any time. All other Linux distros are not much better. Every update has 50% chance of breaking some software from distro repository but at least other distros fix their f-ups faster than Debian.
- anthk 2y ago
  Debian and Devuan and OFC by proxy GNUinos has backports. Probably a newer VLC has been backported wit the bundled compile flags. If not, run apt-get build dep vlc, apt-src the package, make the changes and debuild it.
- tracker1 2y ago
  I've been pretty happy with Pop (downstream from Debian/Ubuntu) myself. Not sure why it doesn't get much love compared to say Mint.
  - skydhash 2y ago
    Linux Mint is basically what Windows should have been. An OS for productive use. Defaults are good enough that you’re almost never tempted to change them. Just install your software and do work. XP (SP3?) was it and Win7 was it too. Everything after that is fighting against you. macOS is close too, but there’s a couple of painful points. Some basic windows management (solved by rectangle), iCloud doing too many things, and too much locking down for “security”.
    - tracker1 2y ago
      I realize this... I was suggesting that Pop is every bit as ready to use as Mint.
      - lproven 2y ago
        How long have you got? • The tiling is clunky, and underneath it's still GNOME, my #1 most hated Linux desktop. • systemd-boot is clunky, does not play well with others, does not dual boot well at all, and it needs a huge ESP yet does not supply tooling to resize the ESP -- and Gparted can't resize FAT32 partitions as small as the typical ESP. • It replaces Snap with Flatpak, which is not an improvement in any meaningful way: the only advocates who bleat that it's more open don't understand what the word means, and architecturally, OStree is a Lovecraftian horror. • The installer is poor and could not handle using an existing `/home` partition when I first tried it (although that did get fixed). It is co-developed with Elementary, which is remarkable because the Elementary one worked better. They'd be better off learning what openness really means and working with Calamares instead. • In summary, it shows many of the defects you'd expect from a distro designed by a hardware manufacturer: poor installation, poor handling of dual boot, poor handling of existing partitions, and poor handling of being put on an existing machine, especially an older one. I find its advocates don't dual boot, don't use older kit, don't do complex partitioning, and so don't notice its defects and are unmoved because the problems do not affect them. Gracefully handling interop and existing tech is one of the things Linux does best, far better than the BSDs for instance, and it is exactly where Pop OS falls down.
        Jasper_ 2y ago
        > architecturally, OStree is a Lovecraftian horror. What makes you say this?
        lproven 2y ago
        OStree describes itself as "Git for binaries". Git is a Lovecraftian horror. QED. I mean, this is the stuff of jokes: https://xkcd.com/1597/ https://xkcd.com/1597/ Or https://x.com/agnoster/status/44636629423497217 https://x.com/agnoster/status/44636629423497217 "git gets easier once you get the basic idea that branches are homeomorphic endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space."
- doubled112 2y ago
  I've run Debian stable + Flatpaks for a while now because new software matters, and it is a good experience if your hardware isn't brand new. Been playing around with Fedora Silverblue/Kinoite though, and watching bugs get fixed instead of working around them is surprisingly refreshing.
yellowapple 2y ago
Funny enough, I argue the exact same thing... about openSUSE.

dmz73 2y ago

Unfortunately, Debian is like Linux on desktop, always 80% there. You just cannot trust that plain Debian will get it right, even if it works that one time you install it. Two most recent issues that made me change to something else: 1) VLC in Debian is modified so it cannot play RTSP streams so you cannot watch video from your security camera. Windows VLC wroks. Flatpak VLC works. 2) Debian kernel update in point release broke NVIDIA driver so you cannot even see your desktop. Debian STABLE is just Linux kernel with old software. If it doesn't work now then it will definitely not work for next 2 years and if it does work now it can break at any time. All other Linux distros are not much better. Every update has 50% chance of breaking some software from distro repository but at least other distros fix their f-ups faster than Debian.

anthk 2y ago
Debian and Devuan and OFC by proxy GNUinos has backports. Probably a newer VLC has been backported wit the bundled compile flags. If not, run apt-get build dep vlc, apt-src the package, make the changes and debuild it.
tracker1 2y ago
I've been pretty happy with Pop (downstream from Debian/Ubuntu) myself. Not sure why it doesn't get much love compared to say Mint.
- skydhash 2y ago
  Linux Mint is basically what Windows should have been. An OS for productive use. Defaults are good enough that you’re almost never tempted to change them. Just install your software and do work. XP (SP3?) was it and Win7 was it too. Everything after that is fighting against you. macOS is close too, but there’s a couple of painful points. Some basic windows management (solved by rectangle), iCloud doing too many things, and too much locking down for “security”.
  - tracker1 2y ago
    I realize this... I was suggesting that Pop is every bit as ready to use as Mint.
    - lproven 2y ago
      How long have you got? • The tiling is clunky, and underneath it's still GNOME, my #1 most hated Linux desktop. • systemd-boot is clunky, does not play well with others, does not dual boot well at all, and it needs a huge ESP yet does not supply tooling to resize the ESP -- and Gparted can't resize FAT32 partitions as small as the typical ESP. • It replaces Snap with Flatpak, which is not an improvement in any meaningful way: the only advocates who bleat that it's more open don't understand what the word means, and architecturally, OStree is a Lovecraftian horror. • The installer is poor and could not handle using an existing `/home` partition when I first tried it (although that did get fixed). It is co-developed with Elementary, which is remarkable because the Elementary one worked better. They'd be better off learning what openness really means and working with Calamares instead. • In summary, it shows many of the defects you'd expect from a distro designed by a hardware manufacturer: poor installation, poor handling of dual boot, poor handling of existing partitions, and poor handling of being put on an existing machine, especially an older one. I find its advocates don't dual boot, don't use older kit, don't do complex partitioning, and so don't notice its defects and are unmoved because the problems do not affect them. Gracefully handling interop and existing tech is one of the things Linux does best, far better than the BSDs for instance, and it is exactly where Pop OS falls down.
      - Jasper_ 2y ago
        > architecturally, OStree is a Lovecraftian horror. What makes you say this?
        lproven 2y ago
        OStree describes itself as "Git for binaries". Git is a Lovecraftian horror. QED. I mean, this is the stuff of jokes: https://xkcd.com/1597/ https://xkcd.com/1597/ Or https://x.com/agnoster/status/44636629423497217 https://x.com/agnoster/status/44636629423497217 "git gets easier once you get the basic idea that branches are homeomorphic endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space."
doubled112 2y ago
I've run Debian stable + Flatpaks for a while now because new software matters, and it is a good experience if your hardware isn't brand new. Been playing around with Fedora Silverblue/Kinoite though, and watching bugs get fixed instead of working around them is surprisingly refreshing.

yellowapple 2y ago

Funny enough, I argue the exact same thing... about openSUSE.