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Sorry, but this is still true IMO. For example no good driver is available for the GTX 1080 which will result in a buggy experience. Not even talking about soft

Sorry, but this is still true IMO. For example no good driver is available for the GTX 1080 which will result in a buggy experience. Not even talking about software availability and functionalities. I have had other issues, but anyways I don't want to list them all. I also find it misleading to claim that Arch Linux is "rock solid", just look at the news to see the amount of "manual intervention needed" listed. I love Linux and especially Fedora and OpenSUSE, but it still has its issue that make me sigh and say "ok... I'll just get windows".

persnickety 2y ago
The nvidia situation is more of a "one big issue" than "death by a thousand cuts".
fragmede 2y ago
> For example no good driver is available for the GTX 1080 which will result in a buggy experience. If you have a GTX 1080. For everyone else that has moved on from an 8 year old graphics card, they won't run into that particular issue. Hence some people reporting a rock solid experience with Arch Linux.
- TheRoque 2y ago
  The age shouldn't be an issue, and it should actually be the opposite. Also, I'm not talking about Arch Linux in this case. For Arch, my issues were with the Network card. But as I said, just hop on the "news" panel on the arch linux website, and you'll see all the tiny manual interventions you have to do. For a "rock solid" UX, I would definitely not use Arch, but probably Mint or Fedora instead.
  - hnlmorg 2y ago
    People don’t usually mix the terms “rock solid” and “UX” like that. Arch is stable. But I agree that its UX isn’t aimed at non-technical people. Windows, for example, is a much easier user experience but it’s not any more stable for it. Generally when one says “rock solid” they mean “stable”
- baq 2y ago
  Well… I’ve got the 1070 and it still has more than enough performance for the games I play.
- TheRoque 2y ago
  Well guess what, old GPUs are still used a lot. According to steam hardware survey https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ The GTX 1060 is more used than any RTX 40XX, and the 1080 is about as used as the 4080.
worthless-trash 2y ago
Turns out you buy hardware that works for your OS. You do it for OSX, why not for Linux ?
- TheRoque 2y ago
  Yes, this is a good point, however when it comes to GPUs, you might not have an optimal choice at all, since some stuff come only on NVidia GPUs. However, after the GTX 1080 they released open source drivers and things should be better for more recent versions.
  - hnlmorg 2y ago
    Unless you’re doing CUDA, almost nothing requires Nvidia GPUs specifically. And in the case of CUDA, that’s already really well supported on Linux.
    - TheRoque 2y ago
      My point was different, the parent was saying "pick the right GPU then". But if I pick AMD I don't have Cuda, and if I use NVidia I have CUDA but buggy graphics. Some other features might or not be well supported by Linux depending on your GPU and the driver (e.g. You might be force to used Xorg). So yeah it's kind of a mess and you have to have everything aligned (Driver, GPU and use cases) to have a flawless experience.
      - hnlmorg 2y ago
        Good gaming machines don’t usually make good ML or mining systems, even in Windows. There are trade offs you have to make regardless of what OS you’re running.
bachmeier 2y ago
Well, some folks had trouble with the GTX 1080 on Windows, so by your logic Windows is also no good: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/nvidia-gtx-1080-performance-issue/fc56d7c0-cc22-4bc1-a098-c9e58d2e4578 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/nvidia... https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/gtx-1080-no-display-on-start-up.3728933/ https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/gtx-1080-no-display-... https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics-cards/5/510889/geforce-gtx-1080-windows-11-graphic-problems/3324670/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics...
- TheRoque 2y ago
  I don't have the time to dig into all these links, but this might be different than an OS issue, more of a manufacturer, or a poor choice of hardware from the people posting it, or they messed up with their software (not updated driver etc.). Because in theory, the NVidia drivers for the GPUs are flawless on Windows. So this doesn't play at all in the Linux VS Windows balance.
hnlmorg 2y ago
“Manual intervention” in ArchLinux is just where you need to do something in a specific order during a system update. It takes all of about 30 seconds to do and is still a hell of a lot easier than having to install software on Windows and macOS. Yeah homebrew exists on macOSbut it’s not part of the base install, let alone official Apple product. The App Store on both Mac and Windows sucks. Not just in the availability of software but also even just raw install performance (they’re slower than pacman + Arch mirrors). Worse still, Windows and macOS still normalise googling for software and then manually downloading and installing it. So if Arch isn’t “rock solid” because every 6 months or so (though, honestly, it's been more like once every 3 years for me) you need to be slightly more careful doing a full system update, then Windows and macOS are positively primitive by your same benchmark. To be clear, I’m not a Linux fanboy by any measure, but it’s literally the concept of package management that pushed me towards modern distributions like SuSE and Arch and one of the biggest annoyances I have with Windows and macOS.
- TheRoque 2y ago
  Package management in most Linux distro is a bliss, this I 100% agree on.
- umbra07 2y ago
  I will also be much happier while troubleshooting any Linux system than any Windows or MacOS system.
tracker1 2y ago
Might be worth grabbing an RX 6600 to replace the GTX 1080 and sell it on FB marketplace or similar. Assuming you want to stick to similar or slightly better performance.

persnickety 2y ago

The nvidia situation is more of a "one big issue" than "death by a thousand cuts".

fragmede 2y ago

> For example no good driver is available for the GTX 1080 which will result in a buggy experience. If you have a GTX 1080. For everyone else that has moved on from an 8 year old graphics card, they won't run into that particular issue. Hence some people reporting a rock solid experience with Arch Linux.

TheRoque 2y ago
The age shouldn't be an issue, and it should actually be the opposite. Also, I'm not talking about Arch Linux in this case. For Arch, my issues were with the Network card. But as I said, just hop on the "news" panel on the arch linux website, and you'll see all the tiny manual interventions you have to do. For a "rock solid" UX, I would definitely not use Arch, but probably Mint or Fedora instead.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  People don’t usually mix the terms “rock solid” and “UX” like that. Arch is stable. But I agree that its UX isn’t aimed at non-technical people. Windows, for example, is a much easier user experience but it’s not any more stable for it. Generally when one says “rock solid” they mean “stable”
baq 2y ago
Well… I’ve got the 1070 and it still has more than enough performance for the games I play.
TheRoque 2y ago
Well guess what, old GPUs are still used a lot. According to steam hardware survey https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ The GTX 1060 is more used than any RTX 40XX, and the 1080 is about as used as the 4080.

worthless-trash 2y ago

Turns out you buy hardware that works for your OS. You do it for OSX, why not for Linux ?

TheRoque 2y ago
Yes, this is a good point, however when it comes to GPUs, you might not have an optimal choice at all, since some stuff come only on NVidia GPUs. However, after the GTX 1080 they released open source drivers and things should be better for more recent versions.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  Unless you’re doing CUDA, almost nothing requires Nvidia GPUs specifically. And in the case of CUDA, that’s already really well supported on Linux.
  - TheRoque 2y ago
    My point was different, the parent was saying "pick the right GPU then". But if I pick AMD I don't have Cuda, and if I use NVidia I have CUDA but buggy graphics. Some other features might or not be well supported by Linux depending on your GPU and the driver (e.g. You might be force to used Xorg). So yeah it's kind of a mess and you have to have everything aligned (Driver, GPU and use cases) to have a flawless experience.
    - hnlmorg 2y ago
      Good gaming machines don’t usually make good ML or mining systems, even in Windows. There are trade offs you have to make regardless of what OS you’re running.

bachmeier 2y ago

Well, some folks had trouble with the GTX 1080 on Windows, so by your logic Windows is also no good: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/nvidia-gtx-1080-performance-issue/fc56d7c0-cc22-4bc1-a098-c9e58d2e4578 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/nvidia... https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/gtx-1080-no-display-on-start-up.3728933/ https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/gtx-1080-no-display-... https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics-cards/5/510889/geforce-gtx-1080-windows-11-graphic-problems/3324670/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics...

TheRoque 2y ago
I don't have the time to dig into all these links, but this might be different than an OS issue, more of a manufacturer, or a poor choice of hardware from the people posting it, or they messed up with their software (not updated driver etc.). Because in theory, the NVidia drivers for the GPUs are flawless on Windows. So this doesn't play at all in the Linux VS Windows balance.

hnlmorg 2y ago

“Manual intervention” in ArchLinux is just where you need to do something in a specific order during a system update. It takes all of about 30 seconds to do and is still a hell of a lot easier than having to install software on Windows and macOS. Yeah homebrew exists on macOSbut it’s not part of the base install, let alone official Apple product. The App Store on both Mac and Windows sucks. Not just in the availability of software but also even just raw install performance (they’re slower than pacman + Arch mirrors). Worse still, Windows and macOS still normalise googling for software and then manually downloading and installing it. So if Arch isn’t “rock solid” because every 6 months or so (though, honestly, it's been more like once every 3 years for me) you need to be slightly more careful doing a full system update, then Windows and macOS are positively primitive by your same benchmark. To be clear, I’m not a Linux fanboy by any measure, but it’s literally the concept of package management that pushed me towards modern distributions like SuSE and Arch and one of the biggest annoyances I have with Windows and macOS.

TheRoque 2y ago
Package management in most Linux distro is a bliss, this I 100% agree on.
umbra07 2y ago
I will also be much happier while troubleshooting any Linux system than any Windows or MacOS system.

tracker1 2y ago

Might be worth grabbing an RX 6600 to replace the GTX 1080 and sell it on FB marketplace or similar. Assuming you want to stick to similar or slightly better performance.