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sounds like lots of regulations. Stuff gets worse to get better. rohs solder. Leaded paints, enamel paints, water based paints. cars with smog pumps and ca

by m463 2y ago

sounds like lots of regulations. Stuff gets worse to get better. rohs solder. Leaded paints, enamel paints, water based paints. cars with smog pumps and catalytic converters.

hnbad 2y ago
ROHS solder, aka lead-free solder, is more difficult to work with so "worse", sure, but on the flip side you don't inhale lead fumes which accumulate in your body (i.e. will never leave your body) and have the delayed effect of causing lead poisoning which can do anything from making you stupider to literally killing you. I'd say the good outweighs the bad here and maybe leaded solder shouldn't be sold to amateurs who don't work in labs under vents. I'm not sure what you're arguing for. Keep selling products that disable and kill people until the technology improves and the market selects for the superior product? Because history has demonstrated that that rarely works out as long as the option that kills and disables people is cheap enough to outweigh the immediate drawbacks. Especially when consumers think they're immune.
- alpaca128 2y ago
  > lead-free solder, is more difficult to work with This kind of statement always puzzles me. Leaded solder was an absolute nightmare to use for me, after the switch to the lead-free one I was suddenly much better at soldering within minutes. It was like going from square to round wheels.
  - hnbad 2y ago
    I haven't had the (dis)pleasure of working with leaded solder myself so I'm going by anecdotes but lead-free solder seems to have a higher melting point so presumably it's easier to damage components through overheating when working with lead-free solder than leaded solder. Either way, my point is that regardless of whether there are benefits, they're not worth dying for (or suffering from lead poisoning).
- m463 2y ago
  I was arguing for making things better (at the expense of some good solutions) The people that complain are correct. For example, asbestos IS a good technical solution! But it is worse in the big picture, therefore we need another solution that might not be perfect.
dghughes 2y ago
> Leaded paints Some European countries banned leaded paint in 1909 the US and Canada only banned lead in paint in the late 1970s!
hammock 2y ago
What about enamel and water based paints?
- m463 2y ago
  enamel paint on cars was traditionally the best paint, and lead or oil based paints the best for houses/etc. But now we use water-based paints because they are safer for lead content or chemical fumes when drying.
forgotusername6 2y ago
You can add plastic food wrap to that list. The original was amazing at sticking to the plate.
- roboror 2y ago
  Polyvinylidene chloride wrap somehow isn't widely regulated yet in the US, the formula for popular plastic wrap was voluntarily changed. AFAIK you can still get the "good" stuff at restaurant supply stores and certain retailers, but it's carcinogens do leach into food.

by m463 2y ago

sounds like lots of regulations. Stuff gets worse to get better. rohs solder. Leaded paints, enamel paints, water based paints. cars with smog pumps and catalytic converters.

hnbad 2y ago

ROHS solder, aka lead-free solder, is more difficult to work with so "worse", sure, but on the flip side you don't inhale lead fumes which accumulate in your body (i.e. will never leave your body) and have the delayed effect of causing lead poisoning which can do anything from making you stupider to literally killing you. I'd say the good outweighs the bad here and maybe leaded solder shouldn't be sold to amateurs who don't work in labs under vents. I'm not sure what you're arguing for. Keep selling products that disable and kill people until the technology improves and the market selects for the superior product? Because history has demonstrated that that rarely works out as long as the option that kills and disables people is cheap enough to outweigh the immediate drawbacks. Especially when consumers think they're immune.

alpaca128 2y ago
> lead-free solder, is more difficult to work with This kind of statement always puzzles me. Leaded solder was an absolute nightmare to use for me, after the switch to the lead-free one I was suddenly much better at soldering within minutes. It was like going from square to round wheels.
- hnbad 2y ago
  I haven't had the (dis)pleasure of working with leaded solder myself so I'm going by anecdotes but lead-free solder seems to have a higher melting point so presumably it's easier to damage components through overheating when working with lead-free solder than leaded solder. Either way, my point is that regardless of whether there are benefits, they're not worth dying for (or suffering from lead poisoning).
m463 2y ago
I was arguing for making things better (at the expense of some good solutions) The people that complain are correct. For example, asbestos IS a good technical solution! But it is worse in the big picture, therefore we need another solution that might not be perfect.

dghughes 2y ago

> Leaded paints Some European countries banned leaded paint in 1909 the US and Canada only banned lead in paint in the late 1970s!

hammock 2y ago

What about enamel and water based paints?

m463 2y ago
enamel paint on cars was traditionally the best paint, and lead or oil based paints the best for houses/etc. But now we use water-based paints because they are safer for lead content or chemical fumes when drying.

forgotusername6 2y ago

You can add plastic food wrap to that list. The original was amazing at sticking to the plate.

roboror 2y ago
Polyvinylidene chloride wrap somehow isn't widely regulated yet in the US, the formula for popular plastic wrap was voluntarily changed. AFAIK you can still get the "good" stuff at restaurant supply stores and certain retailers, but it's carcinogens do leach into food.