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I lost my grandpa (80+) a year ago to suicide. He had surgery for a minor GI issue, then came some complications, another surgery and then another one. He ended

I lost my grandpa (80+) a year ago to suicide. He had surgery for a minor GI issue, then came some complications, another surgery and then another one. He ended up very weak and couldn't walk properly, but his biggest complaint was that his body just didn't feel right after the surgeries. He'd often say that his GI tract felt as if it had been "disconnected," but also that the anaesthesia did something really bad to his head. He'd complain that he was seeing the world "like on a TV screen," as if he wasn't really sitting on the couch with us, living, but just watching things from a distance. Whatever it was, it made life unbearable for him, and he was gone in a few weeks.

llm_trw 2y ago
I'm in my 30s and even after mild procedures it takes me months to feel normal again. Medicine has a long way to go before it can deal with the qualia of post treatment life.
MeImCounting 2y ago
This is pretty terrifying to me. As someone who messed around a fair bit with altered states in my younger years I can remember feeling very similar to whats described here and being stuck like that is terrifying.
- drooby 2y ago
  It's called De-realization, De-personalization. Not fun.
  - mistermann 2y ago
    "The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight."
    - bowsamic 2y ago
      Anyone who has trained in a mystic tradition knows that it too feels like drowning, it’s just drowning on purpose, but no less painful and terrifying
      - mistermann 2y ago
        Not to be rude, but it is not possible to know what all other people have experienced. This is but one of many things you can learn from a deep study of mysticism. Is it impossible to don't afraid of anything? Or maybe even scarier / more powerful: is it impossible to simulate it, adequately?
        bowsamic 2y ago
        You quoted a general statement on the psychotic vs mystic, but when I respond to that generalisation you accuse me of unjustly generalising. According to your statement here, we should also dismiss your quote, since “it is not possible to know what all other people have experienced”, so how can you generalise them? Be wary of applying double standards here.
        greentxt 2y ago
        Im pretty sure everyone, "even here", applies double standards. It's human nature. You fail by your own criteria. Fwiw, I upvoted both generalizations, yours and waterlovers, but want to point out that not all generalizations are equal.
        bowsamic 2y ago
        In this case the generalisation is identical though
        mistermann 2y ago
        This is so?
        2y ago
    - drooby 2y ago
      Absolutely. I consider myself a bit of a "psychonaut" and occasional practitioner of meditation. But I had to cultivate this appreciation. I believe the DR/DP was a manifestation of my self's resistance to a new way to see the world and a new way to relate with my self - or lack thereof. I stopped resisting, DR/DP went away... easier said than done though, I know. And I'm sure my experience was unique to my own.
      - mistermann 2y ago
        There is a big difference between someone who studied computer science and then worked for one year in the field before quitting, and someone who devoted their life to it. So too with DP/DR.
ben_w 2y ago
> seeing the world "like on a TV screen," as if he wasn't really sitting on the couch with us, living, but just watching things from a distance I have this happen at times; I associate it with tiredness. I've also noticed parts of my mind switch off suddenly when tired — one annoying and unfortunate thing I've inherited from my father is a tendency to get stuck in metal loops about imaginary arguments, sometimes involving people who died a decade ago, and one time this kept me awake… until just suddenly switching off like it was a part of my brain that fell asleep. My understanding is that different bits of the brain do fall asleep separately than the whole, and that this happens at incresing scope and frequency the longer one has been awake, and knowing this means it wasn't scary to experience such a sudden change of mental state.
Waterluvian 2y ago
I’ve definitely experienced that last part in a short burst here or there. Having it permanently would definitely be catastrophic. I’m sorry this happened to your grandpa, you, and your family. Thank you for sharing.

llm_trw 2y ago

I'm in my 30s and even after mild procedures it takes me months to feel normal again. Medicine has a long way to go before it can deal with the qualia of post treatment life.

MeImCounting 2y ago

This is pretty terrifying to me. As someone who messed around a fair bit with altered states in my younger years I can remember feeling very similar to whats described here and being stuck like that is terrifying.

drooby 2y ago
It's called De-realization, De-personalization. Not fun.
- mistermann 2y ago
  "The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight."
  - bowsamic 2y ago
    Anyone who has trained in a mystic tradition knows that it too feels like drowning, it’s just drowning on purpose, but no less painful and terrifying
    - mistermann 2y ago
      Not to be rude, but it is not possible to know what all other people have experienced. This is but one of many things you can learn from a deep study of mysticism. Is it impossible to don't afraid of anything? Or maybe even scarier / more powerful: is it impossible to simulate it, adequately?
      - bowsamic 2y ago
        You quoted a general statement on the psychotic vs mystic, but when I respond to that generalisation you accuse me of unjustly generalising. According to your statement here, we should also dismiss your quote, since “it is not possible to know what all other people have experienced”, so how can you generalise them? Be wary of applying double standards here.
        greentxt 2y ago
        Im pretty sure everyone, "even here", applies double standards. It's human nature. You fail by your own criteria. Fwiw, I upvoted both generalizations, yours and waterlovers, but want to point out that not all generalizations are equal.
        bowsamic 2y ago
        In this case the generalisation is identical though
        mistermann 2y ago
        This is so?
        2y ago
  - drooby 2y ago
    Absolutely. I consider myself a bit of a "psychonaut" and occasional practitioner of meditation. But I had to cultivate this appreciation. I believe the DR/DP was a manifestation of my self's resistance to a new way to see the world and a new way to relate with my self - or lack thereof. I stopped resisting, DR/DP went away... easier said than done though, I know. And I'm sure my experience was unique to my own.
    - mistermann 2y ago
      There is a big difference between someone who studied computer science and then worked for one year in the field before quitting, and someone who devoted their life to it. So too with DP/DR.

ben_w 2y ago

> seeing the world "like on a TV screen," as if he wasn't really sitting on the couch with us, living, but just watching things from a distance I have this happen at times; I associate it with tiredness. I've also noticed parts of my mind switch off suddenly when tired — one annoying and unfortunate thing I've inherited from my father is a tendency to get stuck in metal loops about imaginary arguments, sometimes involving people who died a decade ago, and one time this kept me awake… until just suddenly switching off like it was a part of my brain that fell asleep. My understanding is that different bits of the brain do fall asleep separately than the whole, and that this happens at incresing scope and frequency the longer one has been awake, and knowing this means it wasn't scary to experience such a sudden change of mental state.

Waterluvian 2y ago

I’ve definitely experienced that last part in a short burst here or there. Having it permanently would definitely be catastrophic. I’m sorry this happened to your grandpa, you, and your family. Thank you for sharing.