9 ms·

Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

88 points by tnash 14y ago

richbradshaw 14y ago
The new non-Aero interface is interesting, I find it interesting how they are very delibaretly going in the opposite direction to Apple in their interfaces... Don't like the Calendar app - try Windows 8!
- billpatrianakos 14y ago
  It's easy to assume Microsoft is basing decisions on what Apple is doing but I don't think Apple's design choices have any bearing on the new Windows8 interface. I can definitely see why it's easy to assume the connection because of Microsoft's "embrace and extend" motto and their one-step-behind lime of products like Zune, Windows Phone, etc. This time I really think they're thinking independently. It seems as though they've taken note of all the criticisms of Aero and tweaked it to be better and unique to Microsoft. If they've taken cues from anywhere I think it's Google and the minimalist web in general. The new UI chrome is very reminiscent of Google's design across all their products. It's very minimal, functional, and focuses more on readability and utility than what they've come up with n the past. Metro itself is a very cool idea that I really haven't seen from their competitors in any form. I think you're right that they're deliberately going in a certain direction but I don't think Apple is playing as big a role in that decision as you imply. Despite Apple's growth and popularity Microsoft is still by far the biggest player in the OS market. Because of that I would doubt that they're as concerned with what Apple is doing on the desktop front and more interested in taking cues from them in the mobile device space. I'm actually a huge Apple fanboy but I have to say the new Windows desktop is really beautiful! I haven't used a PC in years but I'd be happy to look at the New Windows non-Metro desktop all day. Microsoft is still making a lot of mistakes in cluttering their UI with buttons and ribbons and the like but hopefully the next step is to continue their momentum with the new Windows8 UI chrome and tackle the button/ribbon mess next.
  - richbradshaw 14y ago
    Yeah, don't get me wrong, I do like the overall feel of Metro. Bearing in mind that this is in part a tablet OS, it is directly in competition with iOS, which has a very glossy, gradient rich, often skeuomorphic design. This is the the antithesis of that. Squares, rectangles, block colour etc.
lubos 14y ago
This OS might be the biggest Microsoft flop ever. There are just way too many fundamental changes which are not proven to be actually better. I would rather see new Metro UI as another full-screen app to see if it can stand on its own before they go all-in with it. Something similar to what Microsoft did with Windows 3.10 which was basically another DOS program. I guess, Microsoft is being run by different folks today.
- melling 14y ago
  It'll ship on almost 90% of desktop PC's and there are millions of ageing PC's running XP that have to be near the end of their useful life. In short, how big of a flop could it be?
  - 9999 14y ago
    The potential for a big flop is that instead of buying a PC to replace that aging XP box, the customer will just buy an iPad.
    - Splines 14y ago
      "Hey, look, there's a Windows iPad too. I liked my Windows computer before it just wouldn't turn on anymore, I should try one of those."
    - rosstafarian 14y ago
      heh funny you say that, I do some residential work on the side and lately every time i tell a customer it's time for a new laptop, a good 90% ask "what about an ipad?"
    - commandar 14y ago
      Bingo. I think this could be a huge threat to Microsoft in enterprise use. What happens when ISVs decide to just target web apps rather than rewrite to Windows Runtime?
    - blvr 14y ago
      People are moving to smart phones and tablets anyway. Not because Windows has changed too much, just because they're easier and more convenient.And that's why we have Metro: if Microsoft doesn't follow their customers they're going to lose them.
factorialboy 14y ago
So if I understand corrently it's Metro vs. Chrome OS?
- richbradshaw 14y ago
  vs iOS.
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  They're totally different philosophies. ChromeOS is about Web applications and there's no touch hardware or support AFAIK. There will be no third party native apps, while on Metro the focus is third party touch compatible applications. So it's more like Metro vs. Android.
- fidotron 14y ago
  And Chrome OS looks more like Win7 than Win8 does.
- bonzoesc 14y ago
  This is computers, not the Highlander. There's no "vs." except for individual purchasers' decisions.
neuroelectronic 14y ago
I don't care as long as I can change stuff.
jiggy2011 14y ago
I wonder what will happen with the server version, surely that can't become Metro too?
- dangrossman 14y ago
  It can and will. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2012
- luminarious 14y ago
  It's using Metro as well.. http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/31/microsoft-outs-windows-server-2012-release-candidate/ http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/31/microsoft-outs-windows-se...
dhawalhs 14y ago
I have been using Windows 8 Consumer Preview (and Developer Preview before that) as my primary OS and I love it. I use Windows 8 like Windows 7. All the applications that I use are pinned to the taskbar and I barely enter Metro UI. The only reason I need enter Metro occasionally is to search for apps, files and/or settings. Doing all that in one place without lifting my hand from the keyboard can be handy.
arihant 14y ago
I do not understand the skepticism against Windows 8, specially from the hacker community. The only reason I do not use a Windows computer (anymore) is because there are so few ways to build things on it, compared to a Mac. I remember back in the day when I used Windows exclusively because Visual Studio was the only way to do build awesome things fast. With Windows 8, MS has brought back those days. Developing for Metro is absolutely amazing. I have never felt the urge to write native desktop apps in years until Metro. Not that Apple and Google didn't try. Anybody looking at screenshots and making predictions should download the preview, fire up that Virtualbox, hack together an app and then decide. This is nothing like ChromeOS, believe me, I am running the 30th May build of Chromium on my other machine. This is something that sits between iOS-ified Mac and Web-ified ChromeOS.
- kijin 14y ago
  Developing for Metro might be amazing, but developing on Metro is a non-starter. After all, Visual Studio is not a Metro app (yet). Since most "hackers" will spend most of their time on the traditional desktop anyway, they see little reason to upgrade from Windows 7.
  - arihant 14y ago
    The jump from Metro to traditional UI is not that big. Your visual studio can have its own tile on Metro that takes you straight to the app in traditional UI. Except when writing code, I am usually back in the Metro. It's just like web development. I code for the browser, not on the browser. And still, I am always on the browser, except when I am not.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    And? No one is saying you should develop in Metro. No one is saying "Avoid desktop mode". It's there for a reason. It is there for people who need desktop mode, who need true, all-the-time window-ized multi-tasking. Then there are the people who buy iPads, iPhones, Androids, WP7 and others by the millions. The majority of users do not produce content. Windows 8 is an effort to bring them an easy to use tablet experience while still allowing them to be highly productive in a traditional Windows desktop if necessary. Everyone acts like Windows 8 "breaks Windows". I do not understand this mentality. It's an additional set of apps, UX/UI and APIs. You're not forced to use them or even develop for them. But it's very likely that users are going to embrace Metro Apps for a huge number of reasons (performance [async apis, etc], battery life, notifications, live tiles, ARM tablets, etc) Very little incentive to upgrade is understandable, but I can still list reasons that I will be interested in upping to Win8: (1) upgrading is cheap ($15); (2) Win8 includes the ability to wipe the machine back to "just installed" clean built in (or can wipe Desktop mode (registry, desktop apps) and leave data + Metro apps); (3) hackers will want Visual Studio (or else why is a "hacker" using Windows) and will likely want/need to target Metro apps; (4) even I like to kick back and mindlessly surf Twitter for an hour in the evening.
megaman821 14y ago
I really don't understand what all the complaining is about. For most desktop users Microsoft took away the start button and added a new app launcher. The rest of the OS functions the same or better.
- webXL 14y ago
  They didn't need to take away the start button, and it's going frustrate a lot of users. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU I've been running the preview in a VM, and getting back to the launcher frustrated me so much I had to install a small utility made by Stardock that makes a fake start button that takes you to the launcher: http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/. I'm a Mac guy, but my job requires me to be in Windows half the time. I hope they take a hint from Stardock and that video and put the start button back in.
  - megaman821 14y ago
    It seems that the only people who click the start button are people who don't use Windows all the time. Commonly used apps go in the launch bar and infrequently launched apps are found by hitting the Windows key and typing the name. Nothing in Windows 8 changes that workflow for me.
    - webXL 14y ago
      "Windows key"? What's that? ;)
    - DrJokepu 14y ago
      I think your theory is wrong. Specifically, I use Windows for work all the time (due to Visual Studio) and I never do the typing thing. I can't even remember the name of the applications I don't use often, but I remember the icon so that's what I look for. I really don't think I'm alone with that.
      - kytmizuno 14y ago
Zirro 14y ago
I must say that I am a bit disappointed with the decision to include Flash in this release. Not only will it delay it's death, but it also seems pretty anticompetitive unless other companies are also allowed to release plugins for Metro-IE10.
kijin 14y ago
Can anyone tell when this preview expires? I can't seem to find that information in the FAQ.
- moystard 14y ago
  Someone needs to install it and execute the process described in this article http://techdows.com/2012/03/windows-8-beta-expiry-date.html http://techdows.com/2012/03/windows-8-beta-expiry-date.html to figure it out.
  - ayiteddybear 14y ago
    it says 16.01.2013
- michaelghayes 14y ago
  I beleive it is 1/16/2013
pooriaazimi 14y ago
32-bit: 2.5 GB, 64-bit: 3.3GB Why?!
- MiguelHudnandez 14y ago
  The WOW compatibility layer couldn't account for 700 MB. Perhaps x64 built-in drivers plus their x86 equivalents? I'm tempted to download both, extract, and compare.
  - nooop 14y ago
    > The WOW compatibility layer couldn't account for 700 MB. I'm not that sure... Plus 64 bits binaries are probably something in the order of 10% bigger.
- sveiss 14y ago
  The 64-bit ISO will include copies of most of the 32-bit binaries for compatibility.
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    Thanks. That makes sense.
WrkInProgress 14y ago
Here's an official video/ad that highlights some of the ways people will use Windows 8 in Microsoft's eyes. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview
- emehrkay 14y ago
  That looks pretty cool. I wonder how easy its going to be for people to discover the gestures because they seem to be so different than Android/ios. That swipe from the edge is going to be a hard one to learn/commit to muscle memory. it looked like that kid wasnt really doing that stuff on his screen.
  - nxn 14y ago
    They look a lot more intuitive/natural than iOS. I actually had to use Google when I first got my iPad to figure out how to do some pretty basic things. In fact, I didn't even think to look into it until I accidentally put my whole hand on the screen and unexpected things happened -- it made me question what else was there.
  - dpark 14y ago
    Why is "swipe from edge" hard to learn? This is one of my favorite things about Windows 8, because in hindsight it's so obvious. Disclaimer: MSFT employee
    - emehrkay 14y ago
      I doubt that the average android/ios user even attempt that gesture. Is what Im saying. I feel that doing all of the touch gestures with a mouse is a bit much, especially pull down from top to close. I still havent seen a better solution to multitasking/app management than webos.
      - dpark 14y ago
        Discoverability is a much different issue than learnability. I don't know how discoverable edge swiping is, but it seems really easy to learn. I doubt that discoverability is going to be a major issue, though, because edge swiping will get a lot of exposure through ads, and through any in-store use as well. It's such core functionality that every Windows 8 touch user will have to learn it in the first 2 minutes. If nothing else, they'll turn to the person next to them and say "how do I get back to the start screen"? As for closing metro apps, there's not really any need in general. Just go back to the start screen. You can also close apps in the app switcher on the left, but the current app isn't in there if I recall correctly, and it's still not necessary in general.
debacle 14y ago
I have to say, they've made a ton of improvements since the last release. I'm still not super happy with it (and it still feels like Vista) but it's definitely taken many steps ahead. I still don't think anyone is going to be using the metro menu. It's just not what people want from Windows. Edit: Wait, nevermind, I got it to crash within fifteen minutes. Apparently if you remove a tile from metro while moving it to a new column it will hang the metro menu and break the windows key (at least for me).
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  So much for a release preview...
  - recoiledsnake 14y ago
    Isn't the whole point of a preview that users run it and find and report errors? Otherwise why not just go RTM?
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      That's true, although that seems like a pretty big bug.
Achshar 14y ago
It's seems to be mentioned no where but what is the difference b/w consumer preview and this? Should i upgrade or will it automatically be updated to RP?
teyc 14y ago
Windows 8 is an interesting release from a historical standpoint. Microsoft has been a long proponent of preserving APIs. Just as Windows95 supported DOS, and WinNT supported Win32 APIs. Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a new API, not even .NET, that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more like Android, which is a mobile phone API built on top of Linux. In many ways, programmers are discouraged from interacting with existing operating system services. One can't even access database drivers when writing WinRT programs. Everything is managed via web services. So MS is not in a position of strength: 1. It is not a backwards compatible release (by necessity, due to battery life requirements) 2. It will have to create a market - i.e. ecosystem of developers and consumers 3. It has lackluster record - Windows Phone has little market share, despite being a solid OS 4. It has burned a lot of bridges and karma by abandoning their ethos of supporting old APIs. e.g. Silverlight, Windows Phone 7.5 This means that developers who take a risk with Windows 8 will find that if it tanks, they do not expect the APIs to be maintained in the future. Despite MS baking these WinRT APIs into Windows 8, they represent such a departure from desktop models that you couldn't bring those investments back to the desktop without significant work. Meanwhile, the iPads are making deep inroads into enterprises and schools. Even if aficionados BYOD use Windows 8, MS will have to play underdogs from now on. The only problem is - MS no longer know how to act like one. My prediction? Lackluster adoption, massive layoffs just like HP in the next 20 months.
- compteHN 14y ago
  > Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a new API, not even .NET, that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more like Android, which is a mobile phone API built on top of Linux. You need to make a distinction between WOA (Windows RT) and Windows 8 on x86. Windows RT is a different beast yes in that developers will only have access to the WinRT API, but no restrictions are in place on the x86 version of Windows 8. Developers still have access to the Win32 API and are NOT discouraged to use it.
  - teyc 14y ago
    The problem I see is that the WinRT API sits side by side with Win32. There is no intermixing. You'd either program to one or the other. Sure you can run WinRT on the desktop. WinRT is so sandboxed it is worse than virtualizing XP on Windows 7. From a political standpoint, I can see the Windows 8 server people sneering at the team from Windows Mobile who have managed to sneak their toy OS into a heavy duty operating system. They are putting up with these kids for a while, but they will be booted out at the first sign of failure. I see this as a hedged bet. If WinRT ends up as a market failure, they'll potentially abandon WinRT. After all, it will be like ditching a bit of Windows Mobile code in a proper OS. The whole thing is so cut down that WinRT is best thought of as a presentation layer and little else.
powertower 14y ago
I'll tell you why this OS will be the biggest Microsoft success ever... Most consumers can be clueless, attention deficient, instant-gratification seeking, work/knowledge averse ... or can just want something simple. A lot don't even understand the concept of the file-system (let alone the other 95% of Windows). A lot can't even download a picture from a camera's memory card and place it into the proper folder after you show them how to do it 12 times over 3 months. And most can't be expected to do anything that requires more than 1 or 2 easy steps (whether they can but don't want to, or just can't). Metro re-invents the way the average consumer experiences and works with Windows to the point that even the village idiot could do something useful with this OS. Why do you think the iPad was such a success, and where do you think 95% of its users are coming from?! The dusty PC running Windows. With Metor, Microsoft will keep dominating the home desktop market (as they do now), prevent the outflow of users, and introduce themself in a very serious way in the tablet and phone market.
- vibrunazo 14y ago
  Why exactly do you think it's easier to use when it's so different from theyre used to? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU
  - namm 14y ago
    the final version will include some self-learning demo/video upon initial startup. so users will hopefully be less clueless than the video here. i think the battle is more with whether microsoft can convince users to upgrade/buy. most people do not like big change unless you prove them how the chance is for the better.
    - spullara 14y ago
      Right, because everyone watches those videos.
  - polshaw 14y ago
    That video does almost nothing to show windows 8 is less easy to use. All this takes is to say 'go to the bottom left'. Windows 8 is not littered with things like this.
methodin 14y ago
Have they addressed the need to explain how to do something yet (getting to desktop or back to metro view)? That's really the biggest killer on any app that would theoretically be adopted by the masses.
- petitmiam 14y ago
  I think you're spot on. It took me awhile to figure out what was what, and I'm not sure everyone has as much patience as me.
mtgx 14y ago
I think at best it will have moderate success, and at worst it will be a disaster bigger than Vista. There's no way it can be the "most successful ever", for 3 reasons: 1) Windows 7 has that title covered, because people waited for something like it for 10 years, and were very frustrated with both XP and Vista. It also came at a time when there was still no competition in sight for Microsoft. There was a real, painful need for Windows 7. There is no such thing for Windows 8. Plus it arrives at a time when people just got Windows 7 and they are happy with it. 2) Windows 8 does a dramatic change over previous Windows versions, which means most users are much less likely to be interested in it because most users don't like change, and Windows 8 would have to follow the technology product life cycle all over again (innovators -> early adopters -> early majority, etc.). So it has to actually convince people to use Windows 8 over anything else out there, including Windows 7. 3) People are less likely now to be interested in a Windows machine. You have Macs which are getting increasingly more popular (at least in US). You have iPads and Android devices. You even have Ubuntu and Linux Mint which are starting to leak a bit into the mainstream. The point is, the competition landscape is a lot less friendly to Microsoft right now than it was for previous versions over the past 17 years.

88 points by tnash 14y ago

The new non-Aero interface is interesting, I find it interesting how they are very delibaretly going in the opposite direction to Apple in their interfaces... Don't like the Calendar app - try Windows 8!

billpatrianakos 14y ago
It's easy to assume Microsoft is basing decisions on what Apple is doing but I don't think Apple's design choices have any bearing on the new Windows8 interface. I can definitely see why it's easy to assume the connection because of Microsoft's "embrace and extend" motto and their one-step-behind lime of products like Zune, Windows Phone, etc. This time I really think they're thinking independently. It seems as though they've taken note of all the criticisms of Aero and tweaked it to be better and unique to Microsoft. If they've taken cues from anywhere I think it's Google and the minimalist web in general. The new UI chrome is very reminiscent of Google's design across all their products. It's very minimal, functional, and focuses more on readability and utility than what they've come up with n the past. Metro itself is a very cool idea that I really haven't seen from their competitors in any form. I think you're right that they're deliberately going in a certain direction but I don't think Apple is playing as big a role in that decision as you imply. Despite Apple's growth and popularity Microsoft is still by far the biggest player in the OS market. Because of that I would doubt that they're as concerned with what Apple is doing on the desktop front and more interested in taking cues from them in the mobile device space. I'm actually a huge Apple fanboy but I have to say the new Windows desktop is really beautiful! I haven't used a PC in years but I'd be happy to look at the New Windows non-Metro desktop all day. Microsoft is still making a lot of mistakes in cluttering their UI with buttons and ribbons and the like but hopefully the next step is to continue their momentum with the new Windows8 UI chrome and tackle the button/ribbon mess next.
- richbradshaw 14y ago
  Yeah, don't get me wrong, I do like the overall feel of Metro. Bearing in mind that this is in part a tablet OS, it is directly in competition with iOS, which has a very glossy, gradient rich, often skeuomorphic design. This is the the antithesis of that. Squares, rectangles, block colour etc.

lubos 14y ago

This OS might be the biggest Microsoft flop ever. There are just way too many fundamental changes which are not proven to be actually better. I would rather see new Metro UI as another full-screen app to see if it can stand on its own before they go all-in with it. Something similar to what Microsoft did with Windows 3.10 which was basically another DOS program. I guess, Microsoft is being run by different folks today.

melling 14y ago
It'll ship on almost 90% of desktop PC's and there are millions of ageing PC's running XP that have to be near the end of their useful life. In short, how big of a flop could it be?
- 9999 14y ago
  The potential for a big flop is that instead of buying a PC to replace that aging XP box, the customer will just buy an iPad.
  - Splines 14y ago
    "Hey, look, there's a Windows iPad too. I liked my Windows computer before it just wouldn't turn on anymore, I should try one of those."
  - rosstafarian 14y ago
    heh funny you say that, I do some residential work on the side and lately every time i tell a customer it's time for a new laptop, a good 90% ask "what about an ipad?"
  - commandar 14y ago
    Bingo. I think this could be a huge threat to Microsoft in enterprise use. What happens when ISVs decide to just target web apps rather than rewrite to Windows Runtime?
  - blvr 14y ago
    People are moving to smart phones and tablets anyway. Not because Windows has changed too much, just because they're easier and more convenient.And that's why we have Metro: if Microsoft doesn't follow their customers they're going to lose them.

factorialboy 14y ago

So if I understand corrently it's Metro vs. Chrome OS?

richbradshaw 14y ago
vs iOS.
recoiledsnake 14y ago
They're totally different philosophies. ChromeOS is about Web applications and there's no touch hardware or support AFAIK. There will be no third party native apps, while on Metro the focus is third party touch compatible applications. So it's more like Metro vs. Android.
fidotron 14y ago
And Chrome OS looks more like Win7 than Win8 does.
bonzoesc 14y ago
This is computers, not the Highlander. There's no "vs." except for individual purchasers' decisions.

neuroelectronic 14y ago

I don't care as long as I can change stuff.

jiggy2011 14y ago

I wonder what will happen with the server version, surely that can't become Metro too?

dangrossman 14y ago
It can and will. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2012
luminarious 14y ago
It's using Metro as well.. http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/31/microsoft-outs-windows-server-2012-release-candidate/ http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/31/microsoft-outs-windows-se...

dhawalhs 14y ago

I have been using Windows 8 Consumer Preview (and Developer Preview before that) as my primary OS and I love it. I use Windows 8 like Windows 7. All the applications that I use are pinned to the taskbar and I barely enter Metro UI. The only reason I need enter Metro occasionally is to search for apps, files and/or settings. Doing all that in one place without lifting my hand from the keyboard can be handy.

arihant 14y ago

I do not understand the skepticism against Windows 8, specially from the hacker community. The only reason I do not use a Windows computer (anymore) is because there are so few ways to build things on it, compared to a Mac. I remember back in the day when I used Windows exclusively because Visual Studio was the only way to do build awesome things fast. With Windows 8, MS has brought back those days. Developing for Metro is absolutely amazing. I have never felt the urge to write native desktop apps in years until Metro. Not that Apple and Google didn't try. Anybody looking at screenshots and making predictions should download the preview, fire up that Virtualbox, hack together an app and then decide. This is nothing like ChromeOS, believe me, I am running the 30th May build of Chromium on my other machine. This is something that sits between iOS-ified Mac and Web-ified ChromeOS.

kijin 14y ago
Developing for Metro might be amazing, but developing on Metro is a non-starter. After all, Visual Studio is not a Metro app (yet). Since most "hackers" will spend most of their time on the traditional desktop anyway, they see little reason to upgrade from Windows 7.
- arihant 14y ago
  The jump from Metro to traditional UI is not that big. Your visual studio can have its own tile on Metro that takes you straight to the app in traditional UI. Except when writing code, I am usually back in the Metro. It's just like web development. I code for the browser, not on the browser. And still, I am always on the browser, except when I am not.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  And? No one is saying you should develop in Metro. No one is saying "Avoid desktop mode". It's there for a reason. It is there for people who need desktop mode, who need true, all-the-time window-ized multi-tasking. Then there are the people who buy iPads, iPhones, Androids, WP7 and others by the millions. The majority of users do not produce content. Windows 8 is an effort to bring them an easy to use tablet experience while still allowing them to be highly productive in a traditional Windows desktop if necessary. Everyone acts like Windows 8 "breaks Windows". I do not understand this mentality. It's an additional set of apps, UX/UI and APIs. You're not forced to use them or even develop for them. But it's very likely that users are going to embrace Metro Apps for a huge number of reasons (performance [async apis, etc], battery life, notifications, live tiles, ARM tablets, etc) Very little incentive to upgrade is understandable, but I can still list reasons that I will be interested in upping to Win8: (1) upgrading is cheap ($15); (2) Win8 includes the ability to wipe the machine back to "just installed" clean built in (or can wipe Desktop mode (registry, desktop apps) and leave data + Metro apps); (3) hackers will want Visual Studio (or else why is a "hacker" using Windows) and will likely want/need to target Metro apps; (4) even I like to kick back and mindlessly surf Twitter for an hour in the evening.

megaman821 14y ago

I really don't understand what all the complaining is about. For most desktop users Microsoft took away the start button and added a new app launcher. The rest of the OS functions the same or better.

webXL 14y ago
They didn't need to take away the start button, and it's going frustrate a lot of users. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU I've been running the preview in a VM, and getting back to the launcher frustrated me so much I had to install a small utility made by Stardock that makes a fake start button that takes you to the launcher: http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/. I'm a Mac guy, but my job requires me to be in Windows half the time. I hope they take a hint from Stardock and that video and put the start button back in.
- megaman821 14y ago
  It seems that the only people who click the start button are people who don't use Windows all the time. Commonly used apps go in the launch bar and infrequently launched apps are found by hitting the Windows key and typing the name. Nothing in Windows 8 changes that workflow for me.
  - webXL 14y ago
    "Windows key"? What's that? ;)
  - DrJokepu 14y ago
    I think your theory is wrong. Specifically, I use Windows for work all the time (due to Visual Studio) and I never do the typing thing. I can't even remember the name of the applications I don't use often, but I remember the icon so that's what I look for. I really don't think I'm alone with that.
    - kytmizuno 14y ago

Zirro 14y ago

I must say that I am a bit disappointed with the decision to include Flash in this release. Not only will it delay it's death, but it also seems pretty anticompetitive unless other companies are also allowed to release plugins for Metro-IE10.

kijin 14y ago

Can anyone tell when this preview expires? I can't seem to find that information in the FAQ.

moystard 14y ago
Someone needs to install it and execute the process described in this article http://techdows.com/2012/03/windows-8-beta-expiry-date.html http://techdows.com/2012/03/windows-8-beta-expiry-date.html to figure it out.
- ayiteddybear 14y ago
  it says 16.01.2013
michaelghayes 14y ago
I beleive it is 1/16/2013

pooriaazimi 14y ago

32-bit: 2.5 GB, 64-bit: 3.3GB Why?!

MiguelHudnandez 14y ago
The WOW compatibility layer couldn't account for 700 MB. Perhaps x64 built-in drivers plus their x86 equivalents? I'm tempted to download both, extract, and compare.
- nooop 14y ago
  > The WOW compatibility layer couldn't account for 700 MB. I'm not that sure... Plus 64 bits binaries are probably something in the order of 10% bigger.
sveiss 14y ago
The 64-bit ISO will include copies of most of the 32-bit binaries for compatibility.
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  Thanks. That makes sense.

WrkInProgress 14y ago

Here's an official video/ad that highlights some of the ways people will use Windows 8 in Microsoft's eyes. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview

emehrkay 14y ago
That looks pretty cool. I wonder how easy its going to be for people to discover the gestures because they seem to be so different than Android/ios. That swipe from the edge is going to be a hard one to learn/commit to muscle memory. it looked like that kid wasnt really doing that stuff on his screen.
- nxn 14y ago
  They look a lot more intuitive/natural than iOS. I actually had to use Google when I first got my iPad to figure out how to do some pretty basic things. In fact, I didn't even think to look into it until I accidentally put my whole hand on the screen and unexpected things happened -- it made me question what else was there.
- dpark 14y ago
  Why is "swipe from edge" hard to learn? This is one of my favorite things about Windows 8, because in hindsight it's so obvious. Disclaimer: MSFT employee
  - emehrkay 14y ago
    I doubt that the average android/ios user even attempt that gesture. Is what Im saying. I feel that doing all of the touch gestures with a mouse is a bit much, especially pull down from top to close. I still havent seen a better solution to multitasking/app management than webos.
    - dpark 14y ago
      Discoverability is a much different issue than learnability. I don't know how discoverable edge swiping is, but it seems really easy to learn. I doubt that discoverability is going to be a major issue, though, because edge swiping will get a lot of exposure through ads, and through any in-store use as well. It's such core functionality that every Windows 8 touch user will have to learn it in the first 2 minutes. If nothing else, they'll turn to the person next to them and say "how do I get back to the start screen"? As for closing metro apps, there's not really any need in general. Just go back to the start screen. You can also close apps in the app switcher on the left, but the current app isn't in there if I recall correctly, and it's still not necessary in general.

debacle 14y ago

I have to say, they've made a ton of improvements since the last release. I'm still not super happy with it (and it still feels like Vista) but it's definitely taken many steps ahead. I still don't think anyone is going to be using the metro menu. It's just not what people want from Windows. Edit: Wait, nevermind, I got it to crash within fifteen minutes. Apparently if you remove a tile from metro while moving it to a new column it will hang the metro menu and break the windows key (at least for me).

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
So much for a release preview...
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  Isn't the whole point of a preview that users run it and find and report errors? Otherwise why not just go RTM?
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    That's true, although that seems like a pretty big bug.

Achshar 14y ago

It's seems to be mentioned no where but what is the difference b/w consumer preview and this? Should i upgrade or will it automatically be updated to RP?

teyc 14y ago

Windows 8 is an interesting release from a historical standpoint. Microsoft has been a long proponent of preserving APIs. Just as Windows95 supported DOS, and WinNT supported Win32 APIs. Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a new API, not even .NET, that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more like Android, which is a mobile phone API built on top of Linux. In many ways, programmers are discouraged from interacting with existing operating system services. One can't even access database drivers when writing WinRT programs. Everything is managed via web services. So MS is not in a position of strength: 1. It is not a backwards compatible release (by necessity, due to battery life requirements) 2. It will have to create a market - i.e. ecosystem of developers and consumers 3. It has lackluster record - Windows Phone has little market share, despite being a solid OS 4. It has burned a lot of bridges and karma by abandoning their ethos of supporting old APIs. e.g. Silverlight, Windows Phone 7.5 This means that developers who take a risk with Windows 8 will find that if it tanks, they do not expect the APIs to be maintained in the future. Despite MS baking these WinRT APIs into Windows 8, they represent such a departure from desktop models that you couldn't bring those investments back to the desktop without significant work. Meanwhile, the iPads are making deep inroads into enterprises and schools. Even if aficionados BYOD use Windows 8, MS will have to play underdogs from now on. The only problem is - MS no longer know how to act like one. My prediction? Lackluster adoption, massive layoffs just like HP in the next 20 months.

compteHN 14y ago
> Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a new API, not even .NET, that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more like Android, which is a mobile phone API built on top of Linux. You need to make a distinction between WOA (Windows RT) and Windows 8 on x86. Windows RT is a different beast yes in that developers will only have access to the WinRT API, but no restrictions are in place on the x86 version of Windows 8. Developers still have access to the Win32 API and are NOT discouraged to use it.
- teyc 14y ago
  The problem I see is that the WinRT API sits side by side with Win32. There is no intermixing. You'd either program to one or the other. Sure you can run WinRT on the desktop. WinRT is so sandboxed it is worse than virtualizing XP on Windows 7. From a political standpoint, I can see the Windows 8 server people sneering at the team from Windows Mobile who have managed to sneak their toy OS into a heavy duty operating system. They are putting up with these kids for a while, but they will be booted out at the first sign of failure. I see this as a hedged bet. If WinRT ends up as a market failure, they'll potentially abandon WinRT. After all, it will be like ditching a bit of Windows Mobile code in a proper OS. The whole thing is so cut down that WinRT is best thought of as a presentation layer and little else.

powertower 14y ago

I'll tell you why this OS will be the biggest Microsoft success ever... Most consumers can be clueless, attention deficient, instant-gratification seeking, work/knowledge averse ... or can just want something simple. A lot don't even understand the concept of the file-system (let alone the other 95% of Windows). A lot can't even download a picture from a camera's memory card and place it into the proper folder after you show them how to do it 12 times over 3 months. And most can't be expected to do anything that requires more than 1 or 2 easy steps (whether they can but don't want to, or just can't). Metro re-invents the way the average consumer experiences and works with Windows to the point that even the village idiot could do something useful with this OS. Why do you think the iPad was such a success, and where do you think 95% of its users are coming from?! The dusty PC running Windows. With Metor, Microsoft will keep dominating the home desktop market (as they do now), prevent the outflow of users, and introduce themself in a very serious way in the tablet and phone market.

vibrunazo 14y ago
Why exactly do you think it's easier to use when it's so different from theyre used to? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU
- namm 14y ago
  the final version will include some self-learning demo/video upon initial startup. so users will hopefully be less clueless than the video here. i think the battle is more with whether microsoft can convince users to upgrade/buy. most people do not like big change unless you prove them how the chance is for the better.
  - spullara 14y ago
    Right, because everyone watches those videos.
- polshaw 14y ago
  That video does almost nothing to show windows 8 is less easy to use. All this takes is to say 'go to the bottom left'. Windows 8 is not littered with things like this.

methodin 14y ago

Have they addressed the need to explain how to do something yet (getting to desktop or back to metro view)? That's really the biggest killer on any app that would theoretically be adopted by the masses.

petitmiam 14y ago
I think you're spot on. It took me awhile to figure out what was what, and I'm not sure everyone has as much patience as me.

mtgx 14y ago

I think at best it will have moderate success, and at worst it will be a disaster bigger than Vista. There's no way it can be the "most successful ever", for 3 reasons: 1) Windows 7 has that title covered, because people waited for something like it for 10 years, and were very frustrated with both XP and Vista. It also came at a time when there was still no competition in sight for Microsoft. There was a real, painful need for Windows 7. There is no such thing for Windows 8. Plus it arrives at a time when people just got Windows 7 and they are happy with it. 2) Windows 8 does a dramatic change over previous Windows versions, which means most users are much less likely to be interested in it because most users don't like change, and Windows 8 would have to follow the technology product life cycle all over again (innovators -> early adopters -> early majority, etc.). So it has to actually convince people to use Windows 8 over anything else out there, including Windows 7. 3) People are less likely now to be interested in a Windows machine. You have Macs which are getting increasingly more popular (at least in US). You have iPads and Android devices. You even have Ubuntu and Linux Mint which are starting to leak a bit into the mainstream. The point is, the competition landscape is a lot less friendly to Microsoft right now than it was for previous versions over the past 17 years.