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Egypt is an amalgam. Those people stayed and became Egyptians and interbred. That’s like saying Western Europeans have no claim to Western Europe because it was

Egypt is an amalgam. Those people stayed and became Egyptians and interbred. That’s like saying Western Europeans have no claim to Western Europe because it was settled by people from the Caucasus who bred with the natives. Or that the British have no claim to the UK because they were taken over by Romans.

thriftwy 2y ago
[flagged]
- senderista 2y ago
  Not sure what you mean by "Europe", but Stonehenge was built by people who are much more closely related to modern Sardinians than to modern Britons.
  - gerdesj 2y ago
    "modern Sardinians" I'm no expert but that is going to need quite a citation. Bear in mind that the term "Briton" is quite tricky. Stonehenge as a thing has existed from roughly 3000BC onwards. The stones may have come from what is now Wales. The peoples involved are generally called Britons. Sardinia is an island in the Med. and although there will almost certainly be some small intermixing with what is now the UK and Eire, it will be small. Perhaps you are conflating Sardinia with Cornwall or something?
    - senderista 2y ago
      To put it quite briefly, the British Isles (and most of Europe) were settled by "Early European Farmers"[0] emerging originally from Anatolia in the early Neolithic. Later in the Chalcolithic/Early Bronze Age, Indo-European ("Western Steppe Herder") migrations[1] largely displaced or assimilated them, but today's Southern Europeans retain a significant amount of EEF ancestry (while WSH dominates in Northern Europe), and in Sardinia, for peculiar historical reasons, it actually forms a majority in most of the population. Stonehenge was begun in the late Neolithic by EEF inhabitants of Britain, but shortly afterward the Bell Beaker (WSH-related) migrations[2] began and the EEF population of Britain was almost entirely replaced within a few centuries[3]. The new migrants still kept working on Stonehenge however ("cultural appropriation"?) and its current state is due to them[4]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_European_Farmers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_European_Farmers [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Steppe_Herders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Steppe_Herders [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Beaker_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Beaker_culture [3] https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2018/february/the-beaker-people-a-new-population-for-ancient-britain.html https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2018/february/the-beaker... [4] https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2021/february/ancient-burials-stonehenge-cultures-merged-in-bronze-age.html https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2021/february/ancient-bu...
- gerdesj 2y ago
  "British are in embarrassing position here since their iconic king Arthur tried to kick them out of Britain and unsuccessfully at that." You are aware that King Arthur is fictitious? We treat him in the same way as Germany's King Herman. Mind you, I live near to one of King Arthur "castles" - Cadbury, just north of Yeovil in Somerset. It's not as cool as Tintagel in Cornwall (and lacks the lovely sea views) but it is still a decent iron age fort remains. We also have the Isle of Avalon (Glasto Tor n that) near here and the Sweet Track and more besides in just this little pocket of England. Why not look deeper and embrace and enjoy rather than being a twat? You'll feel better for it.
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  If cheddar man is anything to go by, Stonehenge was built by pretty dark skinned people.
paulryanrogers 2y ago
> Or that the British have no claim to the UK because they were taken over by Romans. Aren't the British mostly Saxons and Angles? Hence the name England, from 'Angelnen'. Ultimately though, not sure it matters much now, a thousand years later.
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  That’s just like the Egyptian argument above. What are the Angles, aren’t they just part Roman?
- philwelch 2y ago
  English people are descended from various admixtures of Anglo-Saxons (various Germanic tribes from modern day Denmark and north Germany), the Britonnic Celts who lived there under the Roman Empire before the empire collapsed and the Anglo-Saxons came, Norsemen (who are hard to genetically distinguish from Anglo-Saxons since they come from very similar North Germanic populations separated by only a few centuries; at any rate they conquered a large chunk of northern England that became known as the “Danelaw”) and possibly Normans (who were also Norsemen with maybe some admixture from the other populations in they ruled over in Normandy, though I’m not sure how large of a population transfer came along with that particular conquest compared with the others). The Britonnic Celts in the western highlands of the former Roman Britain were not easily or immediately conquered by the Anglo-Saxons. Hence, the Anglo-Saxon name for Britonnic Celts eventually became the modern English word “Welsh”. Though note that the Anglo-Saxon term “Wealh” would not have merely referred to the people of modern Wales in particular; any Britonnic Celt was a “Wealh”, hence the other Celtic homeland of Cornwall.

thriftwy 2y ago

[flagged]

senderista 2y ago
Not sure what you mean by "Europe", but Stonehenge was built by people who are much more closely related to modern Sardinians than to modern Britons.
- gerdesj 2y ago
  "modern Sardinians" I'm no expert but that is going to need quite a citation. Bear in mind that the term "Briton" is quite tricky. Stonehenge as a thing has existed from roughly 3000BC onwards. The stones may have come from what is now Wales. The peoples involved are generally called Britons. Sardinia is an island in the Med. and although there will almost certainly be some small intermixing with what is now the UK and Eire, it will be small. Perhaps you are conflating Sardinia with Cornwall or something?
  - senderista 2y ago
    To put it quite briefly, the British Isles (and most of Europe) were settled by "Early European Farmers"[0] emerging originally from Anatolia in the early Neolithic. Later in the Chalcolithic/Early Bronze Age, Indo-European ("Western Steppe Herder") migrations[1] largely displaced or assimilated them, but today's Southern Europeans retain a significant amount of EEF ancestry (while WSH dominates in Northern Europe), and in Sardinia, for peculiar historical reasons, it actually forms a majority in most of the population. Stonehenge was begun in the late Neolithic by EEF inhabitants of Britain, but shortly afterward the Bell Beaker (WSH-related) migrations[2] began and the EEF population of Britain was almost entirely replaced within a few centuries[3]. The new migrants still kept working on Stonehenge however ("cultural appropriation"?) and its current state is due to them[4]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_European_Farmers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_European_Farmers [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Steppe_Herders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Steppe_Herders [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Beaker_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Beaker_culture [3] https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2018/february/the-beaker-people-a-new-population-for-ancient-britain.html https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2018/february/the-beaker... [4] https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2021/february/ancient-burials-stonehenge-cultures-merged-in-bronze-age.html https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2021/february/ancient-bu...
gerdesj 2y ago
"British are in embarrassing position here since their iconic king Arthur tried to kick them out of Britain and unsuccessfully at that." You are aware that King Arthur is fictitious? We treat him in the same way as Germany's King Herman. Mind you, I live near to one of King Arthur "castles" - Cadbury, just north of Yeovil in Somerset. It's not as cool as Tintagel in Cornwall (and lacks the lovely sea views) but it is still a decent iron age fort remains. We also have the Isle of Avalon (Glasto Tor n that) near here and the Sweet Track and more besides in just this little pocket of England. Why not look deeper and embrace and enjoy rather than being a twat? You'll feel better for it.
dyauspitr 2y ago
If cheddar man is anything to go by, Stonehenge was built by pretty dark skinned people.

paulryanrogers 2y ago

> Or that the British have no claim to the UK because they were taken over by Romans. Aren't the British mostly Saxons and Angles? Hence the name England, from 'Angelnen'. Ultimately though, not sure it matters much now, a thousand years later.

dyauspitr 2y ago
That’s just like the Egyptian argument above. What are the Angles, aren’t they just part Roman?
philwelch 2y ago
English people are descended from various admixtures of Anglo-Saxons (various Germanic tribes from modern day Denmark and north Germany), the Britonnic Celts who lived there under the Roman Empire before the empire collapsed and the Anglo-Saxons came, Norsemen (who are hard to genetically distinguish from Anglo-Saxons since they come from very similar North Germanic populations separated by only a few centuries; at any rate they conquered a large chunk of northern England that became known as the “Danelaw”) and possibly Normans (who were also Norsemen with maybe some admixture from the other populations in they ruled over in Normandy, though I’m not sure how large of a population transfer came along with that particular conquest compared with the others). The Britonnic Celts in the western highlands of the former Roman Britain were not easily or immediately conquered by the Anglo-Saxons. Hence, the Anglo-Saxon name for Britonnic Celts eventually became the modern English word “Welsh”. Though note that the Anglo-Saxon term “Wealh” would not have merely referred to the people of modern Wales in particular; any Britonnic Celt was a “Wealh”, hence the other Celtic homeland of Cornwall.