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That is exactly the problem. These services are constantly at war with each other and are attacked by competitors. Cloudflare provides DDoS protection to the DD

by mike_d 2y ago

That is exactly the problem. These services are constantly at war with each other and are attacked by competitors. Cloudflare provides DDoS protection to the DDoS providers so they can keep their services online, which directly benefits Cloudflare by DDoS being a bigger problem than if they were all busy attacking each other. This is a sampling of currently available services and who they use for DDoS protection: stresslab.app - Cloudflare maxstresser.com - Cloudflare sunnystress.com - Cloudflare tresser.io - Cloudflare ip-stresser.net - Cloudflare hardstresser.com - DDoSGuard zdstresser.net - Cloudflare starkstresser.net - Cloudflare stresserhub.org - Cloudflare nightmarestresser.net - DDoSGuard Just for fun head over to Cloudflare's abuse reporting site and try to figure out how to get one of these taken down. https://abuse.cloudflare.com/ https://abuse.cloudflare.com/

jsheard 2y ago
DDoSGuard has a reputation for being The Crime CDN, disproportionately serving things like phishing campaigns, black hat forums, piracy sites, etc, so the fact that they are merely the second most popular CDN amongst DDOS providers after Cloudflare speaks volumes.
jltsiren 2y ago
I find the idea of DDoS providers confusing. If someone tried to operate a service that can be abused easily to cause similar disruption in the physical world, the operation would be taken down quickly and the people behind it would probably end up in prison. But somehow the internet is still a lawless zone where crime is tolerated and everyone is out for themselves.
- marginalia_nu 2y ago
  The added element of international relations makes it a far bit more tricky than any real-world equivalent. Usually these operate out of places that are not on good relations with the countries they target. Russia and China are the big ones.
- mike_d 2y ago
  It used to be very rare for DDoS providers to publicly advertise their services, you kinda had to know a guy who knew a guy. If you put up a website offering this service the Good Guys of the Internet would track you down and get your provider to take you down, or that provider would in turn get disconnected from the internet. Now they hide behind Cloudflare who will refuse to turn over any information so that security folks can get them taken down. Unfortunately Cloudflare has grown too large that we can't just block all of it or depeer them like we would any other network that provided services to bad actors.
  - jltsiren 2y ago
    That kind of vigilante justice is part of the general lawlessness. Most of the listed domain names are under US jurisdiction. That means the authorities should be able to take them down. If Cloudflare is found to have been knowingly enabling crime, it could face fines, and the CEO and other key people could end up in prison. The Cloudflare services have probably been paid using means that are under US jurisdiction. Those payment accounts can be closed and the people behind them tracked down and potentially charged with crimes. Or at least that's how things work in the real world. The internet is still apparently too new for the authorities to understand how to deal with it.
  - greyface- 2y ago
    It's true that you can't practically block Cloudflare without impacting legitimate users, but they can absolutely be depeered if you're willing to pay a higher transit bill.
swyx 2y ago
TIL. thats shocking. i doubt it’s intentional but “institutions will preserve the problem to which they are the solution. no need to ascribe to malice that which can be blamed on simple incentives (and of course its a big problem, things fall thru the cracks, etc etc)
Unfrozen0688 2y ago
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by mike_d 2y ago

jsheard 2y ago

DDoSGuard has a reputation for being The Crime CDN, disproportionately serving things like phishing campaigns, black hat forums, piracy sites, etc, so the fact that they are merely the second most popular CDN amongst DDOS providers after Cloudflare speaks volumes.

jltsiren 2y ago

I find the idea of DDoS providers confusing. If someone tried to operate a service that can be abused easily to cause similar disruption in the physical world, the operation would be taken down quickly and the people behind it would probably end up in prison. But somehow the internet is still a lawless zone where crime is tolerated and everyone is out for themselves.

marginalia_nu 2y ago
The added element of international relations makes it a far bit more tricky than any real-world equivalent. Usually these operate out of places that are not on good relations with the countries they target. Russia and China are the big ones.
mike_d 2y ago
It used to be very rare for DDoS providers to publicly advertise their services, you kinda had to know a guy who knew a guy. If you put up a website offering this service the Good Guys of the Internet would track you down and get your provider to take you down, or that provider would in turn get disconnected from the internet. Now they hide behind Cloudflare who will refuse to turn over any information so that security folks can get them taken down. Unfortunately Cloudflare has grown too large that we can't just block all of it or depeer them like we would any other network that provided services to bad actors.
- jltsiren 2y ago
  That kind of vigilante justice is part of the general lawlessness. Most of the listed domain names are under US jurisdiction. That means the authorities should be able to take them down. If Cloudflare is found to have been knowingly enabling crime, it could face fines, and the CEO and other key people could end up in prison. The Cloudflare services have probably been paid using means that are under US jurisdiction. Those payment accounts can be closed and the people behind them tracked down and potentially charged with crimes. Or at least that's how things work in the real world. The internet is still apparently too new for the authorities to understand how to deal with it.
- greyface- 2y ago
  It's true that you can't practically block Cloudflare without impacting legitimate users, but they can absolutely be depeered if you're willing to pay a higher transit bill.

swyx 2y ago

TIL. thats shocking. i doubt it’s intentional but “institutions will preserve the problem to which they are the solution. no need to ascribe to malice that which can be blamed on simple incentives (and of course its a big problem, things fall thru the cracks, etc etc)

Unfrozen0688 2y ago

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