5 ms·

ADHD traits were an advantage in evolution

75 points by ljlolel 2y ago

ChrisArchitect 2y ago
Title is: ADHD-like traits could offer humans an advantage in foraging, study suggests
riedel 2y ago
https://archive.ph/oHxJw https://archive.ph/oHxJw
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I hit the paywall but I’m wondering how scientists can differentiate between something that was an evolutionary advantage, and something that was a mutation (is that the right word?) that wasn’t relevant to the evolutionary survival aspect and just lingered.
- lithos 2y ago
  Proliferation, like lactose and carbohydrate tolerance.
- lantry 2y ago
  As the sibling comment put it so succinctly, "proliferation". To expand upon that, natural selection basically says that traits which are beneficial to survival or reproduction will become more widespread in a population over time, and traits which are detrimental to survival or reproduction will become more rare in a population over time. Ergo, the fact that ADHD is rather widespread indicates that it is, on the whole, beneficial to the survival and/or reproduction of the individual that carries it. Of course, this is a drastic simplification. If you want to dive deeper, I suggest reading "The Selfish Gene".
- aaron695 2y ago
  > and just lingered This is important to know. But it in practice it seems everything has a cost. An extra useless toggle means more chance of cancer since you have more volume. ADHD might be a negative from the species having smart people. Every now and again it breaks and you get ADHD. But having smart people makes up for that. Or it might be beneficial in its own right. It's unlikely it's neutral.
overstay8930 2y ago
It’s an advantage now if you know how to weaponize it for your purposes. The best dev I’ve ever worked with was an iOS/macOS Swift dev that had horrible adhd, but as long as someone was running the project that helped him focus on what needed to be done (i.e. on his ass enough to keep the work interesting without being annoying), he was doing the work of 5 different people (and was well compensated for it).
- anthonypz 2y ago
  Was his title lead developer who typically helps out a team with any blockers, or was he a lone iOS dev outputting as much work as 5 people? I wonder what a dev with ADHD can do to stand out when they are just beginning a career in tech. I know that working on difficult tickets that nobody else wants to touch can help because you can keep shifting focus to something new, like you mentioned.
  - overstay8930 2y ago
    Solo dev with deadlines. They were one of those people who also wrote plenty of swift in their free time, so I’m not sure how realistic it is for people who have normal work life balances.
    - beretguy 2y ago
      > They were one of those people… I’m confused. Was it 1 person or a group of people?
      - notfish 2y ago
        They can be used as a single person genderless pronoun.
        radiojosh 2y ago
        That seemed rhetorical. I'm hoping it was intended ironically.
zingababba 2y ago
"Using an online berry-picking game" uh-huh...
falcolas 2y ago
This study bugs me. They got 450 qualified participants, of which over 80% were scored as having ADHD (wildly out of proportion with society at large). And the test was only 6 “How often” style questions. And then it extrapolates advantages based on how shorter loiter times scored better on their game. Sus as fuck frankly.
- moi2388 2y ago
  Indeed. Not to mention this: After preprocessing, 49 individuals were excluded from final analyses for the following criteria. First, they either failed pre-defined survey attention checks or did not complete every survey. Further, participants were excluded if they completed less than 25 trials (i.e. an exploit or explore decision) throughout the session, not counting incomplete patches (see below). Why would that happen? Something to do with attention (deficit)? I’m so done with psych studies.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Llamamoe 2y ago
You mean the part where ADHD brains have lower baseline alertness which declines with cognitive effort far faster than a healthy person's, with impaired emotional and impulse control coming together to result in inability to maintain focus and motivation for anything that isn't urgent, exciting, or novel? This study is absurdly poorly designed and its interpretation is as ridiculous as if you wrote "cancer was an evolutionary advantage because it made people more likely to worry about their health". Absurd.
- rcxdude 2y ago
  It is possible for a trait that is broadly negative in most environments to confer enough of an advantage in a specific environment to be selected for: see sickle-cell anemia. And there are scenarios where people with ADHD outperform thise without (the famous "gorilla video" tends not to fool them, for example). But I agree this is basically only hinting at a possible hypothesis, nowhere near an actual conclusion.

75 points by ljlolel 2y ago

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

Title is: ADHD-like traits could offer humans an advantage in foraging, study suggests

riedel 2y ago

https://archive.ph/oHxJw https://archive.ph/oHxJw

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

I hit the paywall but I’m wondering how scientists can differentiate between something that was an evolutionary advantage, and something that was a mutation (is that the right word?) that wasn’t relevant to the evolutionary survival aspect and just lingered.

lithos 2y ago
Proliferation, like lactose and carbohydrate tolerance.
lantry 2y ago
As the sibling comment put it so succinctly, "proliferation". To expand upon that, natural selection basically says that traits which are beneficial to survival or reproduction will become more widespread in a population over time, and traits which are detrimental to survival or reproduction will become more rare in a population over time. Ergo, the fact that ADHD is rather widespread indicates that it is, on the whole, beneficial to the survival and/or reproduction of the individual that carries it. Of course, this is a drastic simplification. If you want to dive deeper, I suggest reading "The Selfish Gene".
aaron695 2y ago
> and just lingered This is important to know. But it in practice it seems everything has a cost. An extra useless toggle means more chance of cancer since you have more volume. ADHD might be a negative from the species having smart people. Every now and again it breaks and you get ADHD. But having smart people makes up for that. Or it might be beneficial in its own right. It's unlikely it's neutral.

overstay8930 2y ago

It’s an advantage now if you know how to weaponize it for your purposes. The best dev I’ve ever worked with was an iOS/macOS Swift dev that had horrible adhd, but as long as someone was running the project that helped him focus on what needed to be done (i.e. on his ass enough to keep the work interesting without being annoying), he was doing the work of 5 different people (and was well compensated for it).

anthonypz 2y ago
Was his title lead developer who typically helps out a team with any blockers, or was he a lone iOS dev outputting as much work as 5 people? I wonder what a dev with ADHD can do to stand out when they are just beginning a career in tech. I know that working on difficult tickets that nobody else wants to touch can help because you can keep shifting focus to something new, like you mentioned.
- overstay8930 2y ago
  Solo dev with deadlines. They were one of those people who also wrote plenty of swift in their free time, so I’m not sure how realistic it is for people who have normal work life balances.
  - beretguy 2y ago
    > They were one of those people… I’m confused. Was it 1 person or a group of people?
    - notfish 2y ago
      They can be used as a single person genderless pronoun.
      - radiojosh 2y ago
        That seemed rhetorical. I'm hoping it was intended ironically.

zingababba 2y ago

"Using an online berry-picking game" uh-huh...

falcolas 2y ago

This study bugs me. They got 450 qualified participants, of which over 80% were scored as having ADHD (wildly out of proportion with society at large). And the test was only 6 “How often” style questions. And then it extrapolates advantages based on how shorter loiter times scored better on their game. Sus as fuck frankly.

moi2388 2y ago
Indeed. Not to mention this: After preprocessing, 49 individuals were excluded from final analyses for the following criteria. First, they either failed pre-defined survey attention checks or did not complete every survey. Further, participants were excluded if they completed less than 25 trials (i.e. an exploit or explore decision) throughout the session, not counting incomplete patches (see below). Why would that happen? Something to do with attention (deficit)? I’m so done with psych studies.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Llamamoe 2y ago

You mean the part where ADHD brains have lower baseline alertness which declines with cognitive effort far faster than a healthy person's, with impaired emotional and impulse control coming together to result in inability to maintain focus and motivation for anything that isn't urgent, exciting, or novel? This study is absurdly poorly designed and its interpretation is as ridiculous as if you wrote "cancer was an evolutionary advantage because it made people more likely to worry about their health". Absurd.

rcxdude 2y ago
It is possible for a trait that is broadly negative in most environments to confer enough of an advantage in a specific environment to be selected for: see sickle-cell anemia. And there are scenarios where people with ADHD outperform thise without (the famous "gorilla video" tends not to fool them, for example). But I agree this is basically only hinting at a possible hypothesis, nowhere near an actual conclusion.