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> To "fill" an electric car to 100% isn't feasible in 2 hours, let alone 5 mins. Even if it took just 20 minutes to "fill" it is still shit compared to my curre

> To "fill" an electric car to 100% isn't feasible in 2 hours, let alone 5 mins. Even if it took just 20 minutes to "fill" it is still shit compared to my current diesel. It takes me 0 minutes to fill my EV. Plug in at night and full in the morning (and pre-heated / de-iced on an automatic schedule too). Going somewhere else and standing for 5 minutes once a week isn’t something I’d rush back to. Edit: My anecdote is about my mum filling up the car with petrol instead of diesel because the handle of the pump was black. You don’t want to know how long we waited for that.

ItsBob 2y ago
The pre-heating/de-icing does sound nice, I'll give you that but EV's just do not work if you live in a flat and unfortunately in and around the cities in the UK there are millions living in flats. Of course, many living in flats won't have a car so that's moot but walk up any street with Victorian 4 floor flats and you'll not see a single parking space available outside them: they're all taken, all the time, but not necessarily by the people that live immediately next to them. Even if they do manage to park right outside their flat, they won't be trailing a cable from their window :D For me, EV's do not make sense for a significant portion of the people driving in the UK. Perhaps the majority. I don't have numbers to back that up but my argument about flats still stands. What I do think makes sense is hybrids (assuming cost parity!). Put a small 30-mile battery in new cars. Let it charge from braking. Use it only when going from 0 - 30 or even just below 30 only and I bet you'd significantly reduce your fuel bills (and carbon if that's part of your reasoning for purchase). I drive a 9 yo Hyundai diesel so I have a cheap car anyway.
- thebruce87m 2y ago
  I’m in the UK. There are a million EVs already out there yet I’m the only one on my street of 100 houses with one. Each of those houses has a drive. They are not for everyone but there is plenty of room for growth. It costs me 3p/mile to run it too saving me about £100/month. Self charging hybrids are a waste of time. My Hyundai i20 1.1 diesel got 60mpg while my colleagues hybrid got 50. Plug-in hybrids are slightly better, but you’ve got additional complexity and all the maintenance of an ICE. Plus you are cycling the small battery more. 1,000 cycles on a 250 mile battery is 250,000 miles - on a 30 mile battery it’s 30,000.
  - ItsBob 2y ago
    > There are a million EVs already out there yet I’m the only one on my street of 100 houses with one You have a driveway (I assume) so you can make use of it but would you still buy one if you had a flat? Still can't overcome the fact that (compared to ice cars and spec being somewhat equal) EV's are way more expensive to buy, more expensive to insure [0], more expensive to repair [0] (especially after a bump/crash), have less resale value than ICE cars, burn forever if set on fire. ICE cars are not going away any time soon and gov trying to ram it down our throats will just cost billions and will turn people off (I don't want one, for instance). The car industry is pushing back too... reality is setting in. For me, if I had to pick the primary reason why I think they're dead is price. My car, for example, was an 8 yo Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 Diesel with 80k on it when I bought it. I paid 11k for it 2 years ago. I own it outright. It's 10 years old now and you wouldn't know it. I've paid £900 for tyres, tracking and aircon recharge and about £160 a month on fuel since I bought it. It's had 2 MOT's too but didn't have to get anything fixed. You just can't get equivalent EV's for that kind of money and for many, that kills them stone dead. [0] - https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/361588/why-electric-car-insurance-so-expensive-ev-vs-ice-cost-analysis https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/361588/why-electric-car-i...
    - thebruce87m 2y ago
      From your article: > The results reveal that the cost of insuring these electric cars is indeed higher, but the difference is not as substantial as the headlines would suggest. The EV was actually cheaper to cover for one of our drivers. Your £160/month on fuel over 2 years is £3,840. An EV charged on octopus would be at least a quarter of that, maybe less. So let’s say £960 - almost a £3k difference. You can absolutely get second hand EVs for £11k - this seems to be at odds with your statement about low resale values too. The low residuals angle is being pushed hard at the moment but when I go looking all I see is standard depreciation on new vehicles. The “burn forever” thing seems to be getting pushed a LOT lately too. Strange when they are 20x less likely to catch fire in the first place and car fires are already pretty rare. https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/amp/ https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-ti...

ItsBob 2y ago

The pre-heating/de-icing does sound nice, I'll give you that but EV's just do not work if you live in a flat and unfortunately in and around the cities in the UK there are millions living in flats. Of course, many living in flats won't have a car so that's moot but walk up any street with Victorian 4 floor flats and you'll not see a single parking space available outside them: they're all taken, all the time, but not necessarily by the people that live immediately next to them. Even if they do manage to park right outside their flat, they won't be trailing a cable from their window :D For me, EV's do not make sense for a significant portion of the people driving in the UK. Perhaps the majority. I don't have numbers to back that up but my argument about flats still stands. What I do think makes sense is hybrids (assuming cost parity!). Put a small 30-mile battery in new cars. Let it charge from braking. Use it only when going from 0 - 30 or even just below 30 only and I bet you'd significantly reduce your fuel bills (and carbon if that's part of your reasoning for purchase). I drive a 9 yo Hyundai diesel so I have a cheap car anyway.

thebruce87m 2y ago
I’m in the UK. There are a million EVs already out there yet I’m the only one on my street of 100 houses with one. Each of those houses has a drive. They are not for everyone but there is plenty of room for growth. It costs me 3p/mile to run it too saving me about £100/month. Self charging hybrids are a waste of time. My Hyundai i20 1.1 diesel got 60mpg while my colleagues hybrid got 50. Plug-in hybrids are slightly better, but you’ve got additional complexity and all the maintenance of an ICE. Plus you are cycling the small battery more. 1,000 cycles on a 250 mile battery is 250,000 miles - on a 30 mile battery it’s 30,000.
- ItsBob 2y ago
  > There are a million EVs already out there yet I’m the only one on my street of 100 houses with one You have a driveway (I assume) so you can make use of it but would you still buy one if you had a flat? Still can't overcome the fact that (compared to ice cars and spec being somewhat equal) EV's are way more expensive to buy, more expensive to insure [0], more expensive to repair [0] (especially after a bump/crash), have less resale value than ICE cars, burn forever if set on fire. ICE cars are not going away any time soon and gov trying to ram it down our throats will just cost billions and will turn people off (I don't want one, for instance). The car industry is pushing back too... reality is setting in. For me, if I had to pick the primary reason why I think they're dead is price. My car, for example, was an 8 yo Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 Diesel with 80k on it when I bought it. I paid 11k for it 2 years ago. I own it outright. It's 10 years old now and you wouldn't know it. I've paid £900 for tyres, tracking and aircon recharge and about £160 a month on fuel since I bought it. It's had 2 MOT's too but didn't have to get anything fixed. You just can't get equivalent EV's for that kind of money and for many, that kills them stone dead. [0] - https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/361588/why-electric-car-insurance-so-expensive-ev-vs-ice-cost-analysis https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/361588/why-electric-car-i...
  - thebruce87m 2y ago
    From your article: > The results reveal that the cost of insuring these electric cars is indeed higher, but the difference is not as substantial as the headlines would suggest. The EV was actually cheaper to cover for one of our drivers. Your £160/month on fuel over 2 years is £3,840. An EV charged on octopus would be at least a quarter of that, maybe less. So let’s say £960 - almost a £3k difference. You can absolutely get second hand EVs for £11k - this seems to be at odds with your statement about low resale values too. The low residuals angle is being pushed hard at the moment but when I go looking all I see is standard depreciation on new vehicles. The “burn forever” thing seems to be getting pushed a LOT lately too. Strange when they are 20x less likely to catch fire in the first place and car fires are already pretty rare. https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/amp/ https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-ti...