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There's a spanish saying: Ladrón que roba a ladrón tiene 100 años de perdón. A Thief that stoles from a Thief has 100 years of forgiveness.
by jpablo 2y ago
There's a spanish saying: Ladrón que roba a ladrón tiene 100 años de perdón.
A Thief that stoles from a Thief has 100 years of forgiveness.
- frutiger 2y agoNot taking a side in this debate, but what is ownership? As far as I can tell it is an invented concept and has no objective truth, only a "truth that we all agree on".
- haiku2077 2y agoI like the word "possession" for this. Either actual possession, when you physically control and can use something, and constructive possesion, where you might not have physical contact with something but still control it. Ownership is when you convince the right people that you should possess something.
- 725686 2y agoCome on, you know exactly what he means.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y agoGiven the debate about the ethics of how the museum sourced its artifacts, I think this is a prime example of ownership being complicated.
- jmprspret 2y agoIts quite simple, actually. The complication only comes from the mental gymnastics required for legitimising how a museum sources its artifacts.
- outlore 2y agoWould you philosophize about ownership if someone stole your laptop or phone? Side tangent: there is an interesting Vox story about a Greenland meteorite. It illustrates the real human cost of these expeditions that filled museums. Therefore I find it hard to disentangle “ownership” from “violence”. In this story, the change of ownership is a violent and traumatic event. https://youtu.be/yvdtWfHpCR4 https://youtu.be/yvdtWfHpCR4
- seoulmetro 2y agoIf someone held a gun to your head and stole your laptop or phone, yes, I'm sure the OP won't try to claim they own the laptop anymore and go to the owners house asking for it back. Stealing through force is very different to stealing through deception alone. History is made by the first, and ruined by the last.
- kleiba 2y agoThat's easy, man! Ownership is when you buy a movie and then can watch it as many times as you want... until the streaming service goes out of business. Oh, sorry, I meant "book" and "read". No, sorry, wrong again... geez...
- will1am 2y agoA form of karma
- nsguy 2y agoIn Hebrew there is a saying that goes roughly like "He who steals from a thief is exempt". This is commonly interpreted as you're not liable but goes to a Mishna (circa 100AD) that says you're exempt from the normal fines that apply to stolen property. https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%94%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%91_%D7%90%D7%97%D7%A8_%D7%94%D7%92%D7%A0%D7%91 https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%94%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%91... Wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of link to the Spanish but if there is I can't find it...
- ak_111 2y agoAnother relevant Arabic saying: ham-eeha, haram-eeha. The guardians are the thieves.
- MaxHoppersGhost 2y agoNot really relevant since the thief is really stealing from the public since these artifacts’ sole purpose is for public enjoyment/education.
- seoulmetro 2y agoThe British Museum isn't a thief. The same way America isn't stolen land. Force isn't a precursor to theft. It's a precursor to possession. If someone with a bigger stick used it to take possession of the museum, we would have to say that they own the items now.
- KingMob 2y agoWhat are these mental gymnastics, and why are you bothering with them? If you're being sarcastic, it's not coming through over the internet. It sounds like either a variant of "might makes right", or irrelevant linguistic pedantry.
- seoulmetro 2y agoMental gymnastics? You mean the mental exercises I use to remain cognitively neutral and not succumb to emotion? Dunno. Probably just think with my brain and not my heart in most situations I can? This is a fairly simple situation where logic wins over extreme emotions. No sarcasm here. Just the truth my friend. If it's pedantic to be right rather than be wrong and emotional then sure, I am being pedantic.