5 ms·

Tattoo inks are regulated in the EU, my tattoo artist wasn't happy about the regulations when they were first announced a few years ago.

lostlogin 2y ago
Some of the regulated ones still cause issues. Had one that was used to give someone eyebrows that got all toasty in an MR scanner.
- hnbad 2y ago
  More importantly, just because tattoo ink is regulated doesn't mean discount tattoo parlors don't use cheap imports or old surplus that don't meet regulations. There are tattoo parlors that will tattoo intoxicated people (which you shouldn't do for a number of reasons ranging from consent to health risks and excessive bleeding) because they're their main source of income, there are likely many that use ink that isn't entirely above board.
- hammyhavoc 2y ago
  Tell me more about the toasty brow please.
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    As far as I can tell, the ink contains iron oxide which conducts and heats when the RF is applied. The person we scanned had too much pain for us to continue. The tattoo was not new. I recall another similar incident too. I also have a colleague who scanned someone with recently tattooed eyebrows and the MR caused very significant pain. The problem would seem to be under reported (see links below which make it seem fairly rare). That said, we don’t have anyone we would report it to and rely on techs talking to each other and sharing these things - which happens regularly. New risks are discovered fairly regularly. In recent memory: smart rings, squirreled away blood sugar monitors, penile implants, penile beads, hair extensions that are attached with wire. A low level of trust is key. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445217/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445217/ https://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/ajr.183.2.1830541?mobileUi=0 https://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/ajr.183.2.1830541... http://www.imrser.org/pdf/shellock.tattoo.jmri.pdf http://www.imrser.org/pdf/shellock.tattoo.jmri.pdf
m463 2y ago
sounds like lots of regulations. Stuff gets worse to get better. rohs solder. Leaded paints, enamel paints, water based paints. cars with smog pumps and catalytic converters.
- hnbad 2y ago
  ROHS solder, aka lead-free solder, is more difficult to work with so "worse", sure, but on the flip side you don't inhale lead fumes which accumulate in your body (i.e. will never leave your body) and have the delayed effect of causing lead poisoning which can do anything from making you stupider to literally killing you. I'd say the good outweighs the bad here and maybe leaded solder shouldn't be sold to amateurs who don't work in labs under vents. I'm not sure what you're arguing for. Keep selling products that disable and kill people until the technology improves and the market selects for the superior product? Because history has demonstrated that that rarely works out as long as the option that kills and disables people is cheap enough to outweigh the immediate drawbacks. Especially when consumers think they're immune.
  - alpaca128 2y ago
    > lead-free solder, is more difficult to work with This kind of statement always puzzles me. Leaded solder was an absolute nightmare to use for me, after the switch to the lead-free one I was suddenly much better at soldering within minutes. It was like going from square to round wheels.
    - hnbad 2y ago
      I haven't had the (dis)pleasure of working with leaded solder myself so I'm going by anecdotes but lead-free solder seems to have a higher melting point so presumably it's easier to damage components through overheating when working with lead-free solder than leaded solder. Either way, my point is that regardless of whether there are benefits, they're not worth dying for (or suffering from lead poisoning).
  - m463 2y ago
    I was arguing for making things better (at the expense of some good solutions) The people that complain are correct. For example, asbestos IS a good technical solution! But it is worse in the big picture, therefore we need another solution that might not be perfect.

lostlogin 2y ago

Some of the regulated ones still cause issues. Had one that was used to give someone eyebrows that got all toasty in an MR scanner.

hnbad 2y ago
More importantly, just because tattoo ink is regulated doesn't mean discount tattoo parlors don't use cheap imports or old surplus that don't meet regulations. There are tattoo parlors that will tattoo intoxicated people (which you shouldn't do for a number of reasons ranging from consent to health risks and excessive bleeding) because they're their main source of income, there are likely many that use ink that isn't entirely above board.
hammyhavoc 2y ago
Tell me more about the toasty brow please.
- lostlogin 2y ago
  As far as I can tell, the ink contains iron oxide which conducts and heats when the RF is applied. The person we scanned had too much pain for us to continue. The tattoo was not new. I recall another similar incident too. I also have a colleague who scanned someone with recently tattooed eyebrows and the MR caused very significant pain. The problem would seem to be under reported (see links below which make it seem fairly rare). That said, we don’t have anyone we would report it to and rely on techs talking to each other and sharing these things - which happens regularly. New risks are discovered fairly regularly. In recent memory: smart rings, squirreled away blood sugar monitors, penile implants, penile beads, hair extensions that are attached with wire. A low level of trust is key. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445217/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445217/ https://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/ajr.183.2.1830541?mobileUi=0 https://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/ajr.183.2.1830541... http://www.imrser.org/pdf/shellock.tattoo.jmri.pdf http://www.imrser.org/pdf/shellock.tattoo.jmri.pdf

m463 2y ago

sounds like lots of regulations. Stuff gets worse to get better. rohs solder. Leaded paints, enamel paints, water based paints. cars with smog pumps and catalytic converters.

hnbad 2y ago
ROHS solder, aka lead-free solder, is more difficult to work with so "worse", sure, but on the flip side you don't inhale lead fumes which accumulate in your body (i.e. will never leave your body) and have the delayed effect of causing lead poisoning which can do anything from making you stupider to literally killing you. I'd say the good outweighs the bad here and maybe leaded solder shouldn't be sold to amateurs who don't work in labs under vents. I'm not sure what you're arguing for. Keep selling products that disable and kill people until the technology improves and the market selects for the superior product? Because history has demonstrated that that rarely works out as long as the option that kills and disables people is cheap enough to outweigh the immediate drawbacks. Especially when consumers think they're immune.
- alpaca128 2y ago
  > lead-free solder, is more difficult to work with This kind of statement always puzzles me. Leaded solder was an absolute nightmare to use for me, after the switch to the lead-free one I was suddenly much better at soldering within minutes. It was like going from square to round wheels.
  - hnbad 2y ago
    I haven't had the (dis)pleasure of working with leaded solder myself so I'm going by anecdotes but lead-free solder seems to have a higher melting point so presumably it's easier to damage components through overheating when working with lead-free solder than leaded solder. Either way, my point is that regardless of whether there are benefits, they're not worth dying for (or suffering from lead poisoning).
- m463 2y ago
  I was arguing for making things better (at the expense of some good solutions) The people that complain are correct. For example, asbestos IS a good technical solution! But it is worse in the big picture, therefore we need another solution that might not be perfect.