3 ms·

> 15-20 minutes is a lot closer to realistic. Blimey! Lord only knows where you live that it can take that long. I can count on one hand the number of times it

by ItsBob 2y ago

> 15-20 minutes is a lot closer to realistic. Blimey! Lord only knows where you live that it can take that long. I can count on one hand the number of times it's taken anything like 10 minutes over the years and they were during crises! In reality, even if I have to wait for a free pump, my car is at 100% range in 5 mins when I pay at the pump by using my credit card. I want my car filled to the brim any time I go to the petrol station (gas station to our friends over in the colonies :D). That's just how I roll. And I know many others who are the same. I also know some that just put in £10-£15 at a time, mainly due to finance constraints tbh. To "fill" an electric car to 100% isn't feasible in 2 hours, let alone 5 mins. Even if it took just 20 minutes to "fill" it is still shit compared to my current diesel. As a consumer, if I have to join a queue for hours [0] then to hell with that! However, with my diesel, it's literally 5 minutes once a week and I'm full up. In addition, I run my car until 50 - 100 miles left in the tank and I don't get bent out of shape when the light comes on at < 50 miles. In an EV I'd shit bricks if that happened. I'd have to change my behaviour to many smaller topups. The simple fact is that we have a chicken and egg scenario with EV's vs charging points/charging time at this time and I don't see it changing any time soon. Anecdote: I just remember something I saw 3 weeks ago. I was in a town near where I live. I parked up to walk to a shop about 2 mins away and I walked past a girl at a charging station staring at the big charger thingy while on her phone. I couldn't hear what she was saying but I could see that the charging flap on her car was open. I was in the shop for about 10 minutes and came back the same way and she was still there, this time poking away at her phone and the cable still wasn't in her car but the charging flap was still open. No idea what the problem was but it caught my attention. Anyway, just thought I'd share. Edit: Something else to mention - Many people round where I live are in Victorian flats with almost no parking nearby. It's not umcommon to park streets away from where you actually live... they'll not buy electric for the most part. [0] - https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/video-massive-line-of-electric-vehicles-wait-to-charge-after-11-pm/ar-AA1jEvfR https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/video-massive-line-of-e...

thebruce87m 2y ago
> To "fill" an electric car to 100% isn't feasible in 2 hours, let alone 5 mins. Even if it took just 20 minutes to "fill" it is still shit compared to my current diesel. It takes me 0 minutes to fill my EV. Plug in at night and full in the morning (and pre-heated / de-iced on an automatic schedule too). Going somewhere else and standing for 5 minutes once a week isn’t something I’d rush back to. Edit: My anecdote is about my mum filling up the car with petrol instead of diesel because the handle of the pump was black. You don’t want to know how long we waited for that.
- ItsBob 2y ago
  The pre-heating/de-icing does sound nice, I'll give you that but EV's just do not work if you live in a flat and unfortunately in and around the cities in the UK there are millions living in flats. Of course, many living in flats won't have a car so that's moot but walk up any street with Victorian 4 floor flats and you'll not see a single parking space available outside them: they're all taken, all the time, but not necessarily by the people that live immediately next to them. Even if they do manage to park right outside their flat, they won't be trailing a cable from their window :D For me, EV's do not make sense for a significant portion of the people driving in the UK. Perhaps the majority. I don't have numbers to back that up but my argument about flats still stands. What I do think makes sense is hybrids (assuming cost parity!). Put a small 30-mile battery in new cars. Let it charge from braking. Use it only when going from 0 - 30 or even just below 30 only and I bet you'd significantly reduce your fuel bills (and carbon if that's part of your reasoning for purchase). I drive a 9 yo Hyundai diesel so I have a cheap car anyway.
  - thebruce87m 2y ago
    I’m in the UK. There are a million EVs already out there yet I’m the only one on my street of 100 houses with one. Each of those houses has a drive. They are not for everyone but there is plenty of room for growth. It costs me 3p/mile to run it too saving me about £100/month. Self charging hybrids are a waste of time. My Hyundai i20 1.1 diesel got 60mpg while my colleagues hybrid got 50. Plug-in hybrids are slightly better, but you’ve got additional complexity and all the maintenance of an ICE. Plus you are cycling the small battery more. 1,000 cycles on a 250 mile battery is 250,000 miles - on a 30 mile battery it’s 30,000.
    - ItsBob 2y ago
      > There are a million EVs already out there yet I’m the only one on my street of 100 houses with one You have a driveway (I assume) so you can make use of it but would you still buy one if you had a flat? Still can't overcome the fact that (compared to ice cars and spec being somewhat equal) EV's are way more expensive to buy, more expensive to insure [0], more expensive to repair [0] (especially after a bump/crash), have less resale value than ICE cars, burn forever if set on fire. ICE cars are not going away any time soon and gov trying to ram it down our throats will just cost billions and will turn people off (I don't want one, for instance). The car industry is pushing back too... reality is setting in. For me, if I had to pick the primary reason why I think they're dead is price. My car, for example, was an 8 yo Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 Diesel with 80k on it when I bought it. I paid 11k for it 2 years ago. I own it outright. It's 10 years old now and you wouldn't know it. I've paid £900 for tyres, tracking and aircon recharge and about £160 a month on fuel since I bought it. It's had 2 MOT's too but didn't have to get anything fixed. You just can't get equivalent EV's for that kind of money and for many, that kills them stone dead. [0] - https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/361588/why-electric-car-insurance-so-expensive-ev-vs-ice-cost-analysis https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/361588/why-electric-car-i...

by ItsBob 2y ago

thebruce87m 2y ago

> To "fill" an electric car to 100% isn't feasible in 2 hours, let alone 5 mins. Even if it took just 20 minutes to "fill" it is still shit compared to my current diesel. It takes me 0 minutes to fill my EV. Plug in at night and full in the morning (and pre-heated / de-iced on an automatic schedule too). Going somewhere else and standing for 5 minutes once a week isn’t something I’d rush back to. Edit: My anecdote is about my mum filling up the car with petrol instead of diesel because the handle of the pump was black. You don’t want to know how long we waited for that.

ItsBob 2y ago
The pre-heating/de-icing does sound nice, I'll give you that but EV's just do not work if you live in a flat and unfortunately in and around the cities in the UK there are millions living in flats. Of course, many living in flats won't have a car so that's moot but walk up any street with Victorian 4 floor flats and you'll not see a single parking space available outside them: they're all taken, all the time, but not necessarily by the people that live immediately next to them. Even if they do manage to park right outside their flat, they won't be trailing a cable from their window :D For me, EV's do not make sense for a significant portion of the people driving in the UK. Perhaps the majority. I don't have numbers to back that up but my argument about flats still stands. What I do think makes sense is hybrids (assuming cost parity!). Put a small 30-mile battery in new cars. Let it charge from braking. Use it only when going from 0 - 30 or even just below 30 only and I bet you'd significantly reduce your fuel bills (and carbon if that's part of your reasoning for purchase). I drive a 9 yo Hyundai diesel so I have a cheap car anyway.
- thebruce87m 2y ago
  I’m in the UK. There are a million EVs already out there yet I’m the only one on my street of 100 houses with one. Each of those houses has a drive. They are not for everyone but there is plenty of room for growth. It costs me 3p/mile to run it too saving me about £100/month. Self charging hybrids are a waste of time. My Hyundai i20 1.1 diesel got 60mpg while my colleagues hybrid got 50. Plug-in hybrids are slightly better, but you’ve got additional complexity and all the maintenance of an ICE. Plus you are cycling the small battery more. 1,000 cycles on a 250 mile battery is 250,000 miles - on a 30 mile battery it’s 30,000.
  - ItsBob 2y ago
    > There are a million EVs already out there yet I’m the only one on my street of 100 houses with one You have a driveway (I assume) so you can make use of it but would you still buy one if you had a flat? Still can't overcome the fact that (compared to ice cars and spec being somewhat equal) EV's are way more expensive to buy, more expensive to insure [0], more expensive to repair [0] (especially after a bump/crash), have less resale value than ICE cars, burn forever if set on fire. ICE cars are not going away any time soon and gov trying to ram it down our throats will just cost billions and will turn people off (I don't want one, for instance). The car industry is pushing back too... reality is setting in. For me, if I had to pick the primary reason why I think they're dead is price. My car, for example, was an 8 yo Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 Diesel with 80k on it when I bought it. I paid 11k for it 2 years ago. I own it outright. It's 10 years old now and you wouldn't know it. I've paid £900 for tyres, tracking and aircon recharge and about £160 a month on fuel since I bought it. It's had 2 MOT's too but didn't have to get anything fixed. You just can't get equivalent EV's for that kind of money and for many, that kills them stone dead. [0] - https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/361588/why-electric-car-insurance-so-expensive-ev-vs-ice-cost-analysis https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/361588/why-electric-car-i...