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Why are people so desperate to cling to labels? As I get older the notion of identity just seems increasingly absurd. Identities and labels have just become the

Why are people so desperate to cling to labels? As I get older the notion of identity just seems increasingly absurd. Identities and labels have just become their own end. People seem like they don't exist anymore except on the terms and expectations already laid out by other people. It's no way to live.

Teever 2y ago
They're filling a god shaped hole in their heart. They like most (all?) people don't understand the world or their role in it, or even worse they know they have no role in this world so they reach for what ever can give them fulfilment, belonging and direction, just like religious people do. I agree that it's no way to live.
- idontknowifican 2y ago
  it always felt a bit more reactionary to me. a lot of people feel like they were unjustly treated, and the label helps them feel better about that stuff. normally i have seen an adult with a fresh diagnosis go really hard in to that identity, only to realize they over did it and land in a more neutral space. as someone who has a bunch of adult friends getting autism or add/adhd diagnosed, there is an immediate phase of “all of my problems are caused by this”, followed by “how do i cope with this”, and finally “this is just helpful context for me”. there are quite a few that get stuck on one of those phases, but largely most people loop back around to a more reasonable view.
- pxc 2y ago
  > god-shaped hole This cliche phrase definitely takes me back! The problem here is of course that gods aren't capable of solving this kind of problem anyway; an external, instrumental purpose ('God made me to do X', or 'God created me to have Y effect on the world') isn't meaningful in the way people want intrinsic or subjective purposes to be anyway. In that sense religious institutions provide the same kind of earthly, banal, limited meaning that hackerspaces or secular charities or sports clubs or families do. But they're not any better at making existentialist yearnings well-formed than anything else is. I also don't think all that is necessary to explain the phenomenon at hand. That account is way too broad. Imo the drive here is more narrative; it's about making the stories of our lives make sense— often in the simple sense of making them unsurprising. Discovering a diagnosis can be very cathartic, and can (partially) explain lots of patterns and events from one's past. It also brings some relief because it tells us that we are not uniquely defective in our failings and points us towards examples of others who have managed to succeed or survive despite the same ailment. And it gives us a vocabulary for identifying similar people from whom we can learn and in whom we can find solidarity. All of those things being are rewarding and/or useful.
  - Slava_Propanei 2y ago
    [dead]
- thrance 2y ago
  If some find solace in religion, then good for them! But some (most?) are able to lead fulfilled lives without religion, and some lead outright miserable lives even with Jesus/YHWH/Allah/Quetzalcoatl in their hearts.
- mcphage 2y ago
  Religious people have all the same identity issues as non religious people. I’ve been around too many religious people to think otherwise.
  - Teever 2y ago
    That's what I'm saying. We all have these problems, people cope with them differently. Some people fill that hole with religion "hurr durr, I'm a Catholic, others fill it withs "hurr durr, I'm an Oilers fan" and others fill it with psychiatric labels "Hurr durr I'm an autistic bipolar type II" Different sides of the same coin.
    - mcphage 2y ago
      I agree with this, but I wouldn’t call it a “god shaped hole” any more than I’d call it an “oilers shaped hole”.
      - Teever 2y ago
        I would, because the thing that used to primarily fill this hole was religion, and thats the hole people are trying to stuff. I'm not religious btw, this is just what I see.
        mcphage 2y ago
        > the thing that used to primarily fill this hole was religion, and thats the hole people are trying to stuff Calling it "a hole" even, is stretching the metaphor too far. People have needs, and religion has often been used to fill that need, as has nationalism, and occupations, and any other thing. But there isn't a single "hole", and that hole doesn't have a "shape". There's just people who have needs, and ways people have tried to fulfill those needs.
- thinkingemote 2y ago
  At root it's kind of like this, you were right about God but it's not really about religion or religious people in the West. It's about looking for identity within and choosing something versus having something chosen for you. We name ourselves. Now we can choose our identity to be anything and even physical and biological reality is less important than our choices. We are told to find ourselves, fulfilment, belonging and direction within ourselves. A person can choose their religion now, they can label themselves according to what they believe in. For many in the West religion is a kind of loose political or ideological club. For many, religion and identity is found and chosen from within. "it's the real me", "I have found the meaning in my life by this chosen identity". But it has not been this way forever, and in other (non-Western) parts of the world it's still another way. The other way is to have your identity defined from above or outside you. For most people who we were, our identities were defined according to our position, where we lived, what our father did, what the culture was. Your father named you. To be "real" you would behave according to what identity had been given to you. Ultimately God is above everything and with regard to identities, symbolically represents this top down giving of a meaning of life. I guess it's making the hole bigger than trying to fill it with something else. Edits: a) I suppose that some older religious people who were "born into it" might be more towards identity-from-outside. b) It would work with non religious people in identity-from-outside cultures. Stereotypical examples: a farmer in rural China, a salaryman in Japan or a peasant in 17th Century Germany. Or a culture where children are encouraged to "do their best" with what they have at hand vs "find themselves" with things they might discover.
- talldayo 2y ago
  A god-shaped hole, or a gap where god once was? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps
rmholt 2y ago
Because of social groups. A single person with $ILLNESS may want to connect with other people with $ILLNESS. Ergo making a group around $ILLNESS and thus identity is born. Labels are a tool, of communication with the rest of society, of expression.
mxmilkiib 2y ago
Communication, finding things, solidarity, community, organisation. If you're part of any group (or set of groups), you're either less or more of an individual, depending on how you look at it, both of which can be viewed normatively as good or bad.
temp0826 2y ago
Paradoxical, but I feel part of the process of individuation is coming to terms with just how extraordinarily ordinary we actually are. For many that naturally comes with age, we simply care less about what others think. And it's very freeing. For those that can't get there, I think there is more often than not some kind of arrested development or trauma holding them to that pattern. It absolutely can be overcome; best not judge (it shouldn't really affect you in any case) and see that everyone is on their own path and some are further along than others.
rebeccaskinner 2y ago
People find others who have things in common with them. Those things people have in common get names. Those named things become a big part of a persons life and so become an identity. Sometimes, identities are something that we choose- the article is focused on people choosing a psychiatric diagnosis as an identity but there are a lot of other identities people choose, based on their work, hobbies, where they live, etc. For example, I am a programmer. It’s an identity I have, based on both my work and hobbies. It’s a useful shorthand for me to share some information about myself and find other likeminded people. People don’t always choose their identities either. A lot of people have an identity imposed on them. When society creates an identity around something that applies to you, it might be impossible to avoid it even if you want to, and embracing it may be a necessary survival strategy. I don’t think it’s a matter of desperation that people cling to them. In some cases it’s a matter of pride, people want a way to claim their membership in a group and show their values and things they care about. I think we all do it, but some people are aware of it or do it intentionally more than others. In other cases, like I said, it’s not a choice. People may desperately want to not have a label imposed on them but they can do little to avoid it.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Identities can backfire though because people who don't identify as your identity have different ideas about that identity than you might. For example I'll never say "I'm a programmer" in a mixed social gathering of people I don't already know. It's a total conversation killer for anyone who isn't a programmer (i.e. most other people) and I really try to avoid bringing it up at least until I have found something else in common with the person I'm talking to. And in general, I think people who make $IDENTITY the main feature of their personality will have difficulty outside of that one social group.
  - rebeccaskinner 2y ago
    > Identities can backfire though because people who don't identify as your identity have different ideas about that identity than you might. That can be true, and I think it's particularly common with imposed, rather than adopted identities. In fact, people having particular ideas about you that aren't necessarily true is the reason a lot of imposed identities exist in the first place. There's not a lot you can really do about it. I suppose you can try very hard to not identify with anything, but that's not always an option, and even when it is it would be a very lonely existence. > And in general, I think people who make $IDENTITY the main feature of their personality will have difficulty outside of that one social group. Another way of saying that is that people who aren't well rounded will have trouble in a lot of social situations. I agree with that, but I don't think it's a problem related to having identities so much as it is someone restricting themselves to a single focal identity.
delecti 2y ago
If you spend a long time feeling like nobody understands an aspect of yourself, learning that there's a name for that is a powerful feeling. People naturally gravitate towards people who make them feel understood.
archsurface 2y ago
A shortcut to identity - it used to be music t-shirts.
sircastor 2y ago
Having a label (and more specifically a mode of treatment) can be the difference between being treated like a human with health issues and just being "the guy who's weird"
- StefanBatory 2y ago
  Like with autism. People are going to look at you differently anyway, but if hey know you're autistic, they might be willing to overlook some things that otherwise would label you as weird.
Slava_Propanei 2y ago
[dead]
Log_out_ 2y ago
Cause society leaves you hanging and alone with genetic curses best yiu get is chemical pacifiers and endless wallowing in the psychological diggestive tract to reform you into a productive sociopath. Labels help to for groups of people suffering a similar fate ignored by the out group, which does not get what labels are for.
mrangle 2y ago
Because people need accommodations, either formal or informal. At its base, the logic is no more complicated. Other reasons for adopting a categorical identity will vary and often be nonexistent.
constantcrying 2y ago
>Why are people so desperate to cling to labels? Because to exist in any society you need to figure out what you are in relation to that society. If you can't answer "who am I", how could you figure out "what should I do with my life". Identity itself is neither good or bad, but it is inevitable. The labels are just short hands to communicate an identity.
tech_ken 2y ago
> People seem like they don't exist anymore except on the terms and expectations already laid out by other people Hasn't this always been true? think what's changed is the labels and identities being selected between, rather than the actual underlying dynamics. We are social animals, so it seems sort of natural that we'd devote a lot of mental effort to understanding ourselves in the context of other people.

Teever 2y ago

They're filling a god shaped hole in their heart. They like most (all?) people don't understand the world or their role in it, or even worse they know they have no role in this world so they reach for what ever can give them fulfilment, belonging and direction, just like religious people do. I agree that it's no way to live.

idontknowifican 2y ago
it always felt a bit more reactionary to me. a lot of people feel like they were unjustly treated, and the label helps them feel better about that stuff. normally i have seen an adult with a fresh diagnosis go really hard in to that identity, only to realize they over did it and land in a more neutral space. as someone who has a bunch of adult friends getting autism or add/adhd diagnosed, there is an immediate phase of “all of my problems are caused by this”, followed by “how do i cope with this”, and finally “this is just helpful context for me”. there are quite a few that get stuck on one of those phases, but largely most people loop back around to a more reasonable view.
pxc 2y ago
> god-shaped hole This cliche phrase definitely takes me back! The problem here is of course that gods aren't capable of solving this kind of problem anyway; an external, instrumental purpose ('God made me to do X', or 'God created me to have Y effect on the world') isn't meaningful in the way people want intrinsic or subjective purposes to be anyway. In that sense religious institutions provide the same kind of earthly, banal, limited meaning that hackerspaces or secular charities or sports clubs or families do. But they're not any better at making existentialist yearnings well-formed than anything else is. I also don't think all that is necessary to explain the phenomenon at hand. That account is way too broad. Imo the drive here is more narrative; it's about making the stories of our lives make sense— often in the simple sense of making them unsurprising. Discovering a diagnosis can be very cathartic, and can (partially) explain lots of patterns and events from one's past. It also brings some relief because it tells us that we are not uniquely defective in our failings and points us towards examples of others who have managed to succeed or survive despite the same ailment. And it gives us a vocabulary for identifying similar people from whom we can learn and in whom we can find solidarity. All of those things being are rewarding and/or useful.
- Slava_Propanei 2y ago
  [dead]
thrance 2y ago
If some find solace in religion, then good for them! But some (most?) are able to lead fulfilled lives without religion, and some lead outright miserable lives even with Jesus/YHWH/Allah/Quetzalcoatl in their hearts.
mcphage 2y ago
Religious people have all the same identity issues as non religious people. I’ve been around too many religious people to think otherwise.
- Teever 2y ago
  That's what I'm saying. We all have these problems, people cope with them differently. Some people fill that hole with religion "hurr durr, I'm a Catholic, others fill it withs "hurr durr, I'm an Oilers fan" and others fill it with psychiatric labels "Hurr durr I'm an autistic bipolar type II" Different sides of the same coin.
  - mcphage 2y ago
    I agree with this, but I wouldn’t call it a “god shaped hole” any more than I’d call it an “oilers shaped hole”.
    - Teever 2y ago
      I would, because the thing that used to primarily fill this hole was religion, and thats the hole people are trying to stuff. I'm not religious btw, this is just what I see.
      - mcphage 2y ago
        > the thing that used to primarily fill this hole was religion, and thats the hole people are trying to stuff Calling it "a hole" even, is stretching the metaphor too far. People have needs, and religion has often been used to fill that need, as has nationalism, and occupations, and any other thing. But there isn't a single "hole", and that hole doesn't have a "shape". There's just people who have needs, and ways people have tried to fulfill those needs.
thinkingemote 2y ago
At root it's kind of like this, you were right about God but it's not really about religion or religious people in the West. It's about looking for identity within and choosing something versus having something chosen for you. We name ourselves. Now we can choose our identity to be anything and even physical and biological reality is less important than our choices. We are told to find ourselves, fulfilment, belonging and direction within ourselves. A person can choose their religion now, they can label themselves according to what they believe in. For many in the West religion is a kind of loose political or ideological club. For many, religion and identity is found and chosen from within. "it's the real me", "I have found the meaning in my life by this chosen identity". But it has not been this way forever, and in other (non-Western) parts of the world it's still another way. The other way is to have your identity defined from above or outside you. For most people who we were, our identities were defined according to our position, where we lived, what our father did, what the culture was. Your father named you. To be "real" you would behave according to what identity had been given to you. Ultimately God is above everything and with regard to identities, symbolically represents this top down giving of a meaning of life. I guess it's making the hole bigger than trying to fill it with something else. Edits: a) I suppose that some older religious people who were "born into it" might be more towards identity-from-outside. b) It would work with non religious people in identity-from-outside cultures. Stereotypical examples: a farmer in rural China, a salaryman in Japan or a peasant in 17th Century Germany. Or a culture where children are encouraged to "do their best" with what they have at hand vs "find themselves" with things they might discover.
talldayo 2y ago
A god-shaped hole, or a gap where god once was? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

rmholt 2y ago

Because of social groups. A single person with $ILLNESS may want to connect with other people with $ILLNESS. Ergo making a group around $ILLNESS and thus identity is born. Labels are a tool, of communication with the rest of society, of expression.

mxmilkiib 2y ago

Communication, finding things, solidarity, community, organisation. If you're part of any group (or set of groups), you're either less or more of an individual, depending on how you look at it, both of which can be viewed normatively as good or bad.

temp0826 2y ago

Paradoxical, but I feel part of the process of individuation is coming to terms with just how extraordinarily ordinary we actually are. For many that naturally comes with age, we simply care less about what others think. And it's very freeing. For those that can't get there, I think there is more often than not some kind of arrested development or trauma holding them to that pattern. It absolutely can be overcome; best not judge (it shouldn't really affect you in any case) and see that everyone is on their own path and some are further along than others.

rebeccaskinner 2y ago

People find others who have things in common with them. Those things people have in common get names. Those named things become a big part of a persons life and so become an identity. Sometimes, identities are something that we choose- the article is focused on people choosing a psychiatric diagnosis as an identity but there are a lot of other identities people choose, based on their work, hobbies, where they live, etc. For example, I am a programmer. It’s an identity I have, based on both my work and hobbies. It’s a useful shorthand for me to share some information about myself and find other likeminded people. People don’t always choose their identities either. A lot of people have an identity imposed on them. When society creates an identity around something that applies to you, it might be impossible to avoid it even if you want to, and embracing it may be a necessary survival strategy. I don’t think it’s a matter of desperation that people cling to them. In some cases it’s a matter of pride, people want a way to claim their membership in a group and show their values and things they care about. I think we all do it, but some people are aware of it or do it intentionally more than others. In other cases, like I said, it’s not a choice. People may desperately want to not have a label imposed on them but they can do little to avoid it.

SoftTalker 2y ago
Identities can backfire though because people who don't identify as your identity have different ideas about that identity than you might. For example I'll never say "I'm a programmer" in a mixed social gathering of people I don't already know. It's a total conversation killer for anyone who isn't a programmer (i.e. most other people) and I really try to avoid bringing it up at least until I have found something else in common with the person I'm talking to. And in general, I think people who make $IDENTITY the main feature of their personality will have difficulty outside of that one social group.
- rebeccaskinner 2y ago
  > Identities can backfire though because people who don't identify as your identity have different ideas about that identity than you might. That can be true, and I think it's particularly common with imposed, rather than adopted identities. In fact, people having particular ideas about you that aren't necessarily true is the reason a lot of imposed identities exist in the first place. There's not a lot you can really do about it. I suppose you can try very hard to not identify with anything, but that's not always an option, and even when it is it would be a very lonely existence. > And in general, I think people who make $IDENTITY the main feature of their personality will have difficulty outside of that one social group. Another way of saying that is that people who aren't well rounded will have trouble in a lot of social situations. I agree with that, but I don't think it's a problem related to having identities so much as it is someone restricting themselves to a single focal identity.

delecti 2y ago

If you spend a long time feeling like nobody understands an aspect of yourself, learning that there's a name for that is a powerful feeling. People naturally gravitate towards people who make them feel understood.

archsurface 2y ago

A shortcut to identity - it used to be music t-shirts.

sircastor 2y ago

Having a label (and more specifically a mode of treatment) can be the difference between being treated like a human with health issues and just being "the guy who's weird"

StefanBatory 2y ago
Like with autism. People are going to look at you differently anyway, but if hey know you're autistic, they might be willing to overlook some things that otherwise would label you as weird.

Slava_Propanei 2y ago

[dead]

Log_out_ 2y ago

Cause society leaves you hanging and alone with genetic curses best yiu get is chemical pacifiers and endless wallowing in the psychological diggestive tract to reform you into a productive sociopath. Labels help to for groups of people suffering a similar fate ignored by the out group, which does not get what labels are for.

mrangle 2y ago

Because people need accommodations, either formal or informal. At its base, the logic is no more complicated. Other reasons for adopting a categorical identity will vary and often be nonexistent.

constantcrying 2y ago

>Why are people so desperate to cling to labels? Because to exist in any society you need to figure out what you are in relation to that society. If you can't answer "who am I", how could you figure out "what should I do with my life". Identity itself is neither good or bad, but it is inevitable. The labels are just short hands to communicate an identity.

tech_ken 2y ago

> People seem like they don't exist anymore except on the terms and expectations already laid out by other people Hasn't this always been true? think what's changed is the labels and identities being selected between, rather than the actual underlying dynamics. We are social animals, so it seems sort of natural that we'd devote a lot of mental effort to understanding ourselves in the context of other people.