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Agreed, but the difference in scale is so extreme. Looking out my office window, I can see a fairly major sea port. The Navy can't get 1 ship off the dock with

Agreed, but the difference in scale is so extreme. Looking out my office window, I can see a fairly major sea port. The Navy can't get 1 ship off the dock without a half dozen tug boats, plus several security boats, etc. The flotilla SpaceX sent out is smaller than what it takes to undock 1 ship, and a carrier battle group consists of 20+ ships. I just find the contrast really illustrative of why SpaceX was able to do this for a fraction of the cost.

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cdibona 14y ago
You're assuming that NASA 'pays' for the flotilla the same way spacex pays for its gear. Think about it, SpaceX probably rents/leases the gear it needs for the time it needs and knows exactly what it costs. Nasa can basically call the local navy detachment and ask them to swoop in. It's not clear that is accounted for in the NASA budget vs. the normal operating budget of that battle group. Similarly, when NASA says something costs 20k to get to orbit, they're saying that because that's what they told someone it would cost when justifying the program. The real cost of things like a shuttle recovery are never as easy to track as one might think.
- ceejayoz 14y ago
  Hell, the carrier group probably logs it as "search and rescue training exercise".
  - koglerjs 14y ago
    And it quite reasonably _is_ exercise...
  - khuey 14y ago
    Almost certainly. Military overflights of stadiums are written off as training exercises routinely (and if the pilots have to spend a certain number of hours flying, why not do something some other people like for a few of them?)
jonknee 14y ago
> a carrier battle group consists of 20+ ships When has NASA every utilized a carrier battle group of 20 ships? I'd also suspect that the Navy can make locating a capsule and scooping up its astronauts as part of a training mission that they would be doing otherwise. Search and rescue is a pretty big deal, they practice it a lot. It's not like our Naval fleet is on the dry unless we're at war.
neurotech1 14y ago
I'm not 100% certain for ships but there is a 'pricelist'[1] for when military aircraft are used by other commands/services or even 'non-government' use. NASA has to pay for when military aircraft are used in support of there research or operations. SpaceX, as covered under Space Act agreement, would be able to obtain appropriate aircraft from the US Navy, such as a P-3 maritime patrol aircraft. [1] http://comptroller.defense.gov/rates/fy2011/2011_f.pdf http://comptroller.defense.gov/rates/fy2011/2011_f.pdf

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cdibona 14y ago

You're assuming that NASA 'pays' for the flotilla the same way spacex pays for its gear. Think about it, SpaceX probably rents/leases the gear it needs for the time it needs and knows exactly what it costs. Nasa can basically call the local navy detachment and ask them to swoop in. It's not clear that is accounted for in the NASA budget vs. the normal operating budget of that battle group. Similarly, when NASA says something costs 20k to get to orbit, they're saying that because that's what they told someone it would cost when justifying the program. The real cost of things like a shuttle recovery are never as easy to track as one might think.

ceejayoz 14y ago
Hell, the carrier group probably logs it as "search and rescue training exercise".
- koglerjs 14y ago
  And it quite reasonably _is_ exercise...
- khuey 14y ago
  Almost certainly. Military overflights of stadiums are written off as training exercises routinely (and if the pilots have to spend a certain number of hours flying, why not do something some other people like for a few of them?)

jonknee 14y ago

> a carrier battle group consists of 20+ ships When has NASA every utilized a carrier battle group of 20 ships? I'd also suspect that the Navy can make locating a capsule and scooping up its astronauts as part of a training mission that they would be doing otherwise. Search and rescue is a pretty big deal, they practice it a lot. It's not like our Naval fleet is on the dry unless we're at war.

neurotech1 14y ago

I'm not 100% certain for ships but there is a 'pricelist'[1] for when military aircraft are used by other commands/services or even 'non-government' use. NASA has to pay for when military aircraft are used in support of there research or operations. SpaceX, as covered under Space Act agreement, would be able to obtain appropriate aircraft from the US Navy, such as a P-3 maritime patrol aircraft. [1] http://comptroller.defense.gov/rates/fy2011/2011_f.pdf http://comptroller.defense.gov/rates/fy2011/2011_f.pdf