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> I always assumed when the baby boomers retired there would be a flood of big family houses coming up for sale. Here in Munich, they indeed are... and whereve

> I always assumed when the baby boomers retired there would be a flood of big family houses coming up for sale. Here in Munich, they indeed are... and wherever possible, they and their often beautiful gardens get torn down, and the entire plot gets "densified" by creating as much indoor space as possible. What was one house for one family is now at least 6-8 apartments for DINKs, often built in shoddy quality with corners cut everywhere but priced and sold at record amounts (that still get paid because all the tech and car bros massively distort the wage market). On one side, it's positive because the lack of housing is absurd. On the other side, none of the surrounding infrastructure was built with that density in mind. Parking overflows everywhere because you physically (slope angle vs lot size) can't create enough garage spaces, traffic itself is getting more and more dangerous as the small streets have been built as tiny veins but now have to carry 2-3x the traffic load, public transport can't handle it as well, doctors/kindergartens/schools are on the verge of collapse, the grid operator doesn't allow PV or EV installation because all the density increase would first require a complete overhaul of the last mile distribution grid. And on top of that, biodiversity has taken a visible hit as all the trees and bushes getting ripped out and replaced by steel eyesores and yards being replaced by gravel so that the hipsters don't have to bother with mowing a lawn don't support insect life, so the birds vanish as well. No free-roaming cats any more either thanks to traffic. Seriously, screw urbanization and gentrification. We absolutely need to revitalize rural areas again.

pavlov 2y ago
> “Seriously, screw urbanization and gentrification. We absolutely need to revitalize rural areas again.” Covid-19 was effectively a massive experiment to test whether people want that, and turns out they didn’t.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  People want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the peace and quiet of single family homes with lots of space of rural areas for their garden and kids, with the job opportunities, infrastructure and amenities of modern dense hip vibrant cities where the best schools, jobs and entertainment are within walking distance or short commutes by public transportation. There's obviously gonna be a shortage of such housing arrangements, and therefore will come at hefty prices everywhere.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  Of course they did want space. Turns out most people can't stand being locked up like chicken in too small coops too long. Domestic violence exploded for example - and that's only from those who were actually able to call police [1]. On positiver notes, you had stuff like urban gardening increase in popularity [2], or sales of (e-)bikes towards people who went and biked to the rural areas. And finally, WFH made it possible for a lot of people to give up their expensive city housing and move out into the suburbs... but obviously nowhere near enough to make a serious dent in demand, and RTO policies are creeping up and destroying even that bit of progress. [1] https://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/06/shadow-pandemic-of-domestic-violence/ https://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/06/shadow-pa... [2] https://caes.ucdavis.edu/news/people-turned-gardening-stress-relief-food-access-during-pandemic https://caes.ucdavis.edu/news/people-turned-gardening-stress...
  - twixfel 2y ago
    I don't really see a decrease in population density and the corresponding increase in cars on the road as "progress", otherwise you're about to tell me that American-style giga suburbs are the answer to our problems. Densification is actually the answer as it's a far more efficient use of resources.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      Densification only works when designing an area from scratch (like China), when you spend many many billions on retrofits or when it was built with sufficient sprawl to accommodate expansions in infrastructure. You can't just go and tear down other peoples' houses here, it's not the Soviet Union.
      - jltsiren 2y ago
        Densification works organically when you don't ban it. That's the way cities have always grown. You plan for the future, upzone areas when appropriate, let the property owners determine what's in their best interests, and collaborate with them to ensure that the necessary infrastructure gets built.
rr808 2y ago
Germany's population has only risen 5% in 50 years. It is one country that should be able to have affordable houses.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  The problem is rural flight. We have insane housing pressure in the largest cities (Munich, Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt), but a loooot of vacant housing in the rural areas - over 10% of units [1], in extreme cases in Eastern Germany 15-18% [2]. Turns out young people flee in droves as soon as they can, when they don't even get ADSL at their home, where they don't have any chance at employment, or where neo-Nazis have been taking over. [1] https://www.zeit.de/news/2021-03/25/leerstand-auf-dem-land-fast-dreimal-so-hoch-wie-in-der-stadt https://www.zeit.de/news/2021-03/25/leerstand-auf-dem-land-f... [2] https://www.demografie-portal.de/DE/Service/Blog/191028-Wohnungsleerstand-in-Deutschland-Wo-sind-die-Herausforderungen-besonders-gross.html https://www.demografie-portal.de/DE/Service/Blog/191028-Wohn...
  - rr808 2y ago
    Same everywhere. 100 years ago my great grandparents all lived on farms, now we're all in big cities. I always assumed I'd go somewhere quiet after retirement but that isn't looking possible anymore.

pavlov 2y ago

> “Seriously, screw urbanization and gentrification. We absolutely need to revitalize rural areas again.” Covid-19 was effectively a massive experiment to test whether people want that, and turns out they didn’t.

Rinzler89 2y ago
People want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the peace and quiet of single family homes with lots of space of rural areas for their garden and kids, with the job opportunities, infrastructure and amenities of modern dense hip vibrant cities where the best schools, jobs and entertainment are within walking distance or short commutes by public transportation. There's obviously gonna be a shortage of such housing arrangements, and therefore will come at hefty prices everywhere.
mschuster91 2y ago
Of course they did want space. Turns out most people can't stand being locked up like chicken in too small coops too long. Domestic violence exploded for example - and that's only from those who were actually able to call police [1]. On positiver notes, you had stuff like urban gardening increase in popularity [2], or sales of (e-)bikes towards people who went and biked to the rural areas. And finally, WFH made it possible for a lot of people to give up their expensive city housing and move out into the suburbs... but obviously nowhere near enough to make a serious dent in demand, and RTO policies are creeping up and destroying even that bit of progress. [1] https://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/06/shadow-pandemic-of-domestic-violence/ https://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/06/shadow-pa... [2] https://caes.ucdavis.edu/news/people-turned-gardening-stress-relief-food-access-during-pandemic https://caes.ucdavis.edu/news/people-turned-gardening-stress...
- twixfel 2y ago
  I don't really see a decrease in population density and the corresponding increase in cars on the road as "progress", otherwise you're about to tell me that American-style giga suburbs are the answer to our problems. Densification is actually the answer as it's a far more efficient use of resources.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    Densification only works when designing an area from scratch (like China), when you spend many many billions on retrofits or when it was built with sufficient sprawl to accommodate expansions in infrastructure. You can't just go and tear down other peoples' houses here, it's not the Soviet Union.
    - jltsiren 2y ago
      Densification works organically when you don't ban it. That's the way cities have always grown. You plan for the future, upzone areas when appropriate, let the property owners determine what's in their best interests, and collaborate with them to ensure that the necessary infrastructure gets built.

rr808 2y ago

Germany's population has only risen 5% in 50 years. It is one country that should be able to have affordable houses.

mschuster91 2y ago
The problem is rural flight. We have insane housing pressure in the largest cities (Munich, Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt), but a loooot of vacant housing in the rural areas - over 10% of units [1], in extreme cases in Eastern Germany 15-18% [2]. Turns out young people flee in droves as soon as they can, when they don't even get ADSL at their home, where they don't have any chance at employment, or where neo-Nazis have been taking over. [1] https://www.zeit.de/news/2021-03/25/leerstand-auf-dem-land-fast-dreimal-so-hoch-wie-in-der-stadt https://www.zeit.de/news/2021-03/25/leerstand-auf-dem-land-f... [2] https://www.demografie-portal.de/DE/Service/Blog/191028-Wohnungsleerstand-in-Deutschland-Wo-sind-die-Herausforderungen-besonders-gross.html https://www.demografie-portal.de/DE/Service/Blog/191028-Wohn...
- rr808 2y ago
  Same everywhere. 100 years ago my great grandparents all lived on farms, now we're all in big cities. I always assumed I'd go somewhere quiet after retirement but that isn't looking possible anymore.