3 ms·

One negative I see is that there is no way to incrementally add memory to the system with a just single slot. The good news is that it should be possible for fu

by nagisa 2y ago

One negative I see is that there is no way to incrementally add memory to the system with a just single slot. The good news is that it should be possible for future products to have two (or more?) of these slots on the back side of the board, enabling the extensibility after all.

doikor 2y ago
With DDR5 it is very unlikely that you are going to add more memory modules on consumer boards. This is because if you add more then 2 you half the speed on both AMD and Intel platforms (and you don't get full speed with just 1 stick). Also if the new module is not exactly the same as the previous ones you can very easily run into stability issues. This is why on consumer land you are pretty much always buying your memory as a kit (of 2 modules with DDR5). And if you want more you buy a bigger kit and sell your old ones or throw them in the trash. On server side the memory controller on the CPU is much more beefy and the motherboard better built to allow for more memory sticks to run at full speeds. But even then you usually have to go and find memory that the OEM qualified/teste for you.
- nottorp 2y ago
  > This is because if you add more then 2 you half the speed on both AMD and Intel platforms (and you don't get full speed with just 1 stick). Modules have been added in pairs since forever due to motherboards being able to use dual channel. Except on the cheapest cheapest options (not all laptops). That doesn't mean you can't add more than one pair. Did that change with DDR5? Also note that this CAMM module is already dual channel. You don't need pairs any more.
  - Gracana 2y ago
    Yes, four slot DDR5 is going to be much slower than two slot DDR5 due to signal integrity difficulties. Look at a DDR5 motherboard’s qualified memory configurations and compare the x2 setups to x4 and you will see the huge difference in clock rates.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      What's "much slower"? 10%? 30%? 60%? Are the speeds that don't work in an x4 configuration even within spec, or "overclocked"? Is that why everyone is complaining about ddr5 prices? Atm I'm fine with my ddr4 box and will probably still be for the next few years. Tbh the last time I've seen a noticeable difference from memory speed was when I overclocked my ram (and system bus!) from 66 to 100 Mhz. Back in the pentium 1 / amd k5 era, i believe. I do have a feeling what you're describing only means 5 more fps in some benchmarks... And last, a friendly reminder. If your working set doesn't fit in ram you're screwed no matter what your ram speed is :)
      - Gracana 2y ago
        As doikor said, it’ll halve your RAM speed. That’s not a rule, but it’s typical.
        nottorp 2y ago
        So... if you want a reasonable amount of ram for real work (64 G+) you're better off with ddr4?
        doikor 2y ago
        You just buy large modules. There are 64 and 128gb modules (mainly meant for servers) For example 64gb from Samsung for 350€ https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/atmina-ram/1028642-samsung-64gb-ddr5-4800mhz-cl40-single-stick https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/atmina-ram/1028642-samsung-64... I think they go up to 512gb per single module these days. The really big ones are really hard to buy for us mere mortals but you can get them through various data center/enterprise hardware vendors.
    - HPsquared 2y ago
      If that's the case, would it be possible to deactivate those sticks for extra speed if memory usage is currently low?
- _cenw 2y ago
  > Also if the new module is not exactly the same as the previous ones you can very easily run into stability issues. Even with the same module, syncing up 4 modules to rated speed is going to be a challenge to boot, let alone have it be stable. If you want density, a platform that supports RDIMMs is the way to go with DDR5.
nottorp 2y ago
Yep, it looks to me like a step down for desktops. It's nice that it takes less space than two SODIMM slots but if you only get one module on a desktop motherboard you're still at the mercy of memory module makers when you build new (1) and have to pay more than you should for upgrades (2). (1) Last desktop I built i used 4 x 16 dimms instead of 2 x 32 because I needed it yesterday and that's what was going to get delivered in 24 hours. If the mobo had just one camm module i'd have had to either live with 32 or deal with the delays. (2) You get your one camm module motherboard, put 16 G ram on it because that's what all the games demand these days and you believe in Santa, then realize you need 32 to have any chance of running a browser or discord while playing, pay for a 32 G module, throw away the 16 G... the only happy entity is the memory seller.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
smileybarry 2y ago
I’ve had bad experiences with adding memory — even during DDR3 days — that I just replace the whole kit now. Otherwise I can get random instabilities, memory corruption, and that’s not even with XMP on.

by nagisa 2y ago

doikor 2y ago

With DDR5 it is very unlikely that you are going to add more memory modules on consumer boards. This is because if you add more then 2 you half the speed on both AMD and Intel platforms (and you don't get full speed with just 1 stick). Also if the new module is not exactly the same as the previous ones you can very easily run into stability issues. This is why on consumer land you are pretty much always buying your memory as a kit (of 2 modules with DDR5). And if you want more you buy a bigger kit and sell your old ones or throw them in the trash. On server side the memory controller on the CPU is much more beefy and the motherboard better built to allow for more memory sticks to run at full speeds. But even then you usually have to go and find memory that the OEM qualified/teste for you.

nottorp 2y ago
> This is because if you add more then 2 you half the speed on both AMD and Intel platforms (and you don't get full speed with just 1 stick). Modules have been added in pairs since forever due to motherboards being able to use dual channel. Except on the cheapest cheapest options (not all laptops). That doesn't mean you can't add more than one pair. Did that change with DDR5? Also note that this CAMM module is already dual channel. You don't need pairs any more.
- Gracana 2y ago
  Yes, four slot DDR5 is going to be much slower than two slot DDR5 due to signal integrity difficulties. Look at a DDR5 motherboard’s qualified memory configurations and compare the x2 setups to x4 and you will see the huge difference in clock rates.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    What's "much slower"? 10%? 30%? 60%? Are the speeds that don't work in an x4 configuration even within spec, or "overclocked"? Is that why everyone is complaining about ddr5 prices? Atm I'm fine with my ddr4 box and will probably still be for the next few years. Tbh the last time I've seen a noticeable difference from memory speed was when I overclocked my ram (and system bus!) from 66 to 100 Mhz. Back in the pentium 1 / amd k5 era, i believe. I do have a feeling what you're describing only means 5 more fps in some benchmarks... And last, a friendly reminder. If your working set doesn't fit in ram you're screwed no matter what your ram speed is :)
    - Gracana 2y ago
      As doikor said, it’ll halve your RAM speed. That’s not a rule, but it’s typical.
      - nottorp 2y ago
        So... if you want a reasonable amount of ram for real work (64 G+) you're better off with ddr4?
        doikor 2y ago
        You just buy large modules. There are 64 and 128gb modules (mainly meant for servers) For example 64gb from Samsung for 350€ https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/atmina-ram/1028642-samsung-64gb-ddr5-4800mhz-cl40-single-stick https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/atmina-ram/1028642-samsung-64... I think they go up to 512gb per single module these days. The really big ones are really hard to buy for us mere mortals but you can get them through various data center/enterprise hardware vendors.
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    If that's the case, would it be possible to deactivate those sticks for extra speed if memory usage is currently low?
_cenw 2y ago
> Also if the new module is not exactly the same as the previous ones you can very easily run into stability issues. Even with the same module, syncing up 4 modules to rated speed is going to be a challenge to boot, let alone have it be stable. If you want density, a platform that supports RDIMMs is the way to go with DDR5.

nottorp 2y ago

Yep, it looks to me like a step down for desktops. It's nice that it takes less space than two SODIMM slots but if you only get one module on a desktop motherboard you're still at the mercy of memory module makers when you build new (1) and have to pay more than you should for upgrades (2). (1) Last desktop I built i used 4 x 16 dimms instead of 2 x 32 because I needed it yesterday and that's what was going to get delivered in 24 hours. If the mobo had just one camm module i'd have had to either live with 32 or deal with the delays. (2) You get your one camm module motherboard, put 16 G ram on it because that's what all the games demand these days and you believe in Santa, then realize you need 32 to have any chance of running a browser or discord while playing, pay for a 32 G module, throw away the 16 G... the only happy entity is the memory seller.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

smileybarry 2y ago

I’ve had bad experiences with adding memory — even during DDR3 days — that I just replace the whole kit now. Otherwise I can get random instabilities, memory corruption, and that’s not even with XMP on.