5 ms·

What, no mention that the Norwegian police use evidence markers with inches printed on them? That company sells them with CM markers.

rwmj 2y ago
[flagged]
- tadfisher 2y ago
  That line of thinking ultimately leads to the conclusion that trust is impossible. If you cannot trust the Norwegian police to produce accurate information, then you must trust the media. If you can't trust the media, then you have to trust strangers on the Internet. If you can't trust strangers on the Internet, you have to trust your friends and family. But what if they're informed by the corrupt police, media, or Internet commenters? Can you even trust yourself? Apply this logic elsewhere, and you cannot trust social institutions; for example, your local human services department when they come to warn you about your domicile being unfit for human habitation. Next, you can't trust the medical profession after you've been involuntarily committed to a mental institution after threatening the local schoolchildren (although we all know you were only warning them about the coming danger). You can't trust the state medical authority to regulate the medication that is used to treat paranoid schizophrenia. Now you're stuck in a padded room, unable to move your arms to scratch that incessant itch on your nose, pleading with your caretakers to just listen to reason, open their eyes to the truth. All you wanted to do was alert the world to the alarming fact that the United States obviously staged evidence that someone intentionally cut an undersea communications cable to Svalbard, Norway on the 7th of January, 2022.
  - pessimizer 2y ago
    You're not making a logical argument against the reasoning, you're just saying that a logical argument, ignoring probability at every level, leaves you helpless. Trusting things isn't a solution, it's a cop-out. Instead of a magic formula, you take things on a case-by-case basis, examining sources and possible motives of those sources, looking at past experience with them for hints. This sounds like work because it is. It's very easy to just accept what you're told, but it's not heroic or even reasonable. > All you wanted to do was alert the world to the alarming fact that the United States obviously staged evidence that someone intentionally cut an undersea communications cable to Svalbard, Norway on the 7th of January, 2022. Meanwhile, the United States government is like "that line of thinking ultimately leads to the conclusion that trust is impossible."
    - MeImCounting 2y ago
      There is in fact a line between using discretion and critical thinking and falling prey to paranoid superstition. This is important because there are people who prey specifically on people who are vulnurable to conspiratorial thinking and they are very good at it. For about half the population of the US right now if the Daily Wire or like Joe Rogan came out and said that refrigerators are a deep state conspiracy that has been transing the kids, that would be it. No more refrigerators. There would be piles of refrigerators miles high at landfills across the country and having cold drinks would be a sure sign youre a corrupted liberal.
      - YZF 2y ago
        The thing about most conspiracies is that they need to have some "marginal plausibility" (I just made that term up). The refrigerator example seems going a bit too far. Hormones in milk might do the trick though. Cold drinks like Pepsi and Coke definitely have some potential. Also rather than not having cold drinks going back to using ice boxes is probably the better option. More seriously, we do live in a complex world, we can't function without trust but we also have to be open to changing our opinions based on new evidence. I'm just reading "How to talk to a science denier" and it's got some interesting takes on these topics.
        jonathankoren 2y ago
        >The thing about most conspiracies is that they need to have some "marginal plausibility We literally had a wide spread conspiracy about secret DNA editing viruses that were controlled by 5G cellular antennas, because They™ wanted to mind control people and make them sterile for population replacement by Them™. I’d say that it’s not about being plausible in any sort objective sense, but rather a successful conspiracy theory must reinforce existing beliefs and biases. See also: Ultraterrestrials, and UFOs as satanic entities battling Jesus.
        YZF 2y ago
        Well, virus can change your DNA. Cell phone towers being everywhere with people not generally understanding how they work or whether they pose health risks is another thing. You need to tell a story that the layman can't readily refute. Crazy government scientists engineering viruses that can be remote controlled by radio signals is "marginally plausible". The fridge story IMO doesn't qualify. There's another category of fables I'd call "religious fables". Those are ones that can't be falsified. Feels like your other examples fit in those. Religious people believe all sort of things in these categories. They're not really related to the factual reality. This is different IMO from your run of the mill conspiracy theory because those generally have enough counter-evidence where you can make a reason/logic based assessment of the probability of true vs. false. An analogy is flat earthers pointing to some "evidence" that in their mind supports the idea that the earth is flat while ignoring the bulk of evidence demonstrating it's not. Even if you do not have the ability to directly observe whether the earth is flat or not you can weigh the evidence. It's true religion and conspiracy often intersect. Religion by its nature is belief without facts.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  The photo with evidence marker 11 clearly shows both inches and centimeters. There's no conspiracy here. They're just taking photos with both sets of measurements.
  - Kon-Peki 2y ago
    Hey, I apologize. Only two photos loaded on my phone, both of which used inches only. Conspiracy was the furthest thing from my mind; I’ve seen photos from police in the US with centimeters and I thought it was hilarious: Americans using cm and Europeans using inches. What’s the world coming to?
- ChrisClark 2y ago
  Nope, there aren't as many actual conspiracies as you think there are.
- nkrisc 2y ago
  Have you considered more mundane explanations first? If there was a conspiracy I think they would not have made such a foolish and obvious error.
  - eru 2y ago
    > Have you considered more mundane explanations first? It's indeed more likely the police just bought an off-the-shelf measuring device. They often come with both imperial and proper units. > If there was a conspiracy I think they would not have made such a foolish and obvious error. Alas, that's not necessarily a good rule-of-thumb. Incompetence is a thing. Compare to eg how the Russian spooks placed three copies of the game SIMS 3 in the pictures they published of an alleged assassins' lair. (Most likely, some superior officer told the grunts to put three SIM cards for burner phones in the picture.) See https://www.vice.com/en/article/88gpmg/russia-sims-3 https://www.vice.com/en/article/88gpmg/russia-sims-3
    - somenameforme 2y ago
      That isn't 3 copies of the Sims 3. It's one copy of the game and two different expansion packs - Outdoor Living and Master Suite it looks like. This is a pretty important detail, because it's pretty difficult to come up with a reasonably likely explanation for why somebody would have 3 copies of a single game, but trivial to do so for game + expansions, which was then mistaken by an officer on the scene for being meaningful. Ah but how the media has such different standards for conspiracy theories when it furthers a desired narrative, rather than contradicts it.
      - eru 2y ago
        Thanks for correcting my memory about three copies of the Sims 3. > [...], which was then mistaken by an officer on the scene for being meaningful. Well, my narrative here is that one way or another the officers were incompetent. Either in staging (more likely), or in assigning meaning (less likely).
    - dasv 2y ago
      In addition to that, this photo was taken onboard a cable laying vessel. There are not that many and they are booked back to back all over the world, so it is not of the question that they would have dual metric and imperial measurement devices. Also, onboard a working ship there is usually an international mixture of crew and contractors, and of course they might have American clients.
- Tor3 2y ago
  "Maybe a clue about the real origin of the photos". No. It's simply the _commercial product_ the police used for markers. It shows both cm and inches. You don't think that the police themselves are actually manufacturing these things, do you?
lobochrome 2y ago
Odd indeed. I would assume the salvage company was American?
threeseed 2y ago
The bottom image has an evidence marker with cms on it as well. Perhaps they intended for the information to be shared with US intelligence.
new23d 2y ago
Product appears to be an ID Tent from Evi-Paq. It has inches on the front 'leg' and cms on the rear. https://forensicssource.com/collections/evidence-markers/products/disposable-id-tent-white-f_327 https://forensicssource.com/collections/evidence-markers/pro...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Aurornis 2y ago
Scroll down to the lower images. They have both inch and centimeter measurements on other photos. It's more likely that they take photos with both measurements.
alufers 2y ago
Some gun calibers are measured with inches, so maybe they have some imperial markers on hand to measure bullet casings?
- eru 2y ago
  Many measuring devices used in eg Germany have both proper units and Freedom units printed on them. It's probably just easier to have one model that you can sell anyone on the globe. Economics of scale and all that.
  - vidarh 2y ago
    I'm Norwegian, and it's very common in Norway as well to have e.g. rulers and other measuring devices with both inches and metric units. It's if anything pretty rare to have just one or the other unless it's a "format" where displaying both affect usability - e.g. make the writing too small.

rwmj 2y ago

[flagged]

tadfisher 2y ago
That line of thinking ultimately leads to the conclusion that trust is impossible. If you cannot trust the Norwegian police to produce accurate information, then you must trust the media. If you can't trust the media, then you have to trust strangers on the Internet. If you can't trust strangers on the Internet, you have to trust your friends and family. But what if they're informed by the corrupt police, media, or Internet commenters? Can you even trust yourself? Apply this logic elsewhere, and you cannot trust social institutions; for example, your local human services department when they come to warn you about your domicile being unfit for human habitation. Next, you can't trust the medical profession after you've been involuntarily committed to a mental institution after threatening the local schoolchildren (although we all know you were only warning them about the coming danger). You can't trust the state medical authority to regulate the medication that is used to treat paranoid schizophrenia. Now you're stuck in a padded room, unable to move your arms to scratch that incessant itch on your nose, pleading with your caretakers to just listen to reason, open their eyes to the truth. All you wanted to do was alert the world to the alarming fact that the United States obviously staged evidence that someone intentionally cut an undersea communications cable to Svalbard, Norway on the 7th of January, 2022.
- pessimizer 2y ago
  You're not making a logical argument against the reasoning, you're just saying that a logical argument, ignoring probability at every level, leaves you helpless. Trusting things isn't a solution, it's a cop-out. Instead of a magic formula, you take things on a case-by-case basis, examining sources and possible motives of those sources, looking at past experience with them for hints. This sounds like work because it is. It's very easy to just accept what you're told, but it's not heroic or even reasonable. > All you wanted to do was alert the world to the alarming fact that the United States obviously staged evidence that someone intentionally cut an undersea communications cable to Svalbard, Norway on the 7th of January, 2022. Meanwhile, the United States government is like "that line of thinking ultimately leads to the conclusion that trust is impossible."
  - MeImCounting 2y ago
    There is in fact a line between using discretion and critical thinking and falling prey to paranoid superstition. This is important because there are people who prey specifically on people who are vulnurable to conspiratorial thinking and they are very good at it. For about half the population of the US right now if the Daily Wire or like Joe Rogan came out and said that refrigerators are a deep state conspiracy that has been transing the kids, that would be it. No more refrigerators. There would be piles of refrigerators miles high at landfills across the country and having cold drinks would be a sure sign youre a corrupted liberal.
    - YZF 2y ago
      The thing about most conspiracies is that they need to have some "marginal plausibility" (I just made that term up). The refrigerator example seems going a bit too far. Hormones in milk might do the trick though. Cold drinks like Pepsi and Coke definitely have some potential. Also rather than not having cold drinks going back to using ice boxes is probably the better option. More seriously, we do live in a complex world, we can't function without trust but we also have to be open to changing our opinions based on new evidence. I'm just reading "How to talk to a science denier" and it's got some interesting takes on these topics.
      - jonathankoren 2y ago
        >The thing about most conspiracies is that they need to have some "marginal plausibility We literally had a wide spread conspiracy about secret DNA editing viruses that were controlled by 5G cellular antennas, because They™ wanted to mind control people and make them sterile for population replacement by Them™. I’d say that it’s not about being plausible in any sort objective sense, but rather a successful conspiracy theory must reinforce existing beliefs and biases. See also: Ultraterrestrials, and UFOs as satanic entities battling Jesus.
        YZF 2y ago
        Well, virus can change your DNA. Cell phone towers being everywhere with people not generally understanding how they work or whether they pose health risks is another thing. You need to tell a story that the layman can't readily refute. Crazy government scientists engineering viruses that can be remote controlled by radio signals is "marginally plausible". The fridge story IMO doesn't qualify. There's another category of fables I'd call "religious fables". Those are ones that can't be falsified. Feels like your other examples fit in those. Religious people believe all sort of things in these categories. They're not really related to the factual reality. This is different IMO from your run of the mill conspiracy theory because those generally have enough counter-evidence where you can make a reason/logic based assessment of the probability of true vs. false. An analogy is flat earthers pointing to some "evidence" that in their mind supports the idea that the earth is flat while ignoring the bulk of evidence demonstrating it's not. Even if you do not have the ability to directly observe whether the earth is flat or not you can weigh the evidence. It's true religion and conspiracy often intersect. Religion by its nature is belief without facts.
Aurornis 2y ago
The photo with evidence marker 11 clearly shows both inches and centimeters. There's no conspiracy here. They're just taking photos with both sets of measurements.
- Kon-Peki 2y ago
  Hey, I apologize. Only two photos loaded on my phone, both of which used inches only. Conspiracy was the furthest thing from my mind; I’ve seen photos from police in the US with centimeters and I thought it was hilarious: Americans using cm and Europeans using inches. What’s the world coming to?
ChrisClark 2y ago
Nope, there aren't as many actual conspiracies as you think there are.
nkrisc 2y ago
Have you considered more mundane explanations first? If there was a conspiracy I think they would not have made such a foolish and obvious error.
- eru 2y ago
  > Have you considered more mundane explanations first? It's indeed more likely the police just bought an off-the-shelf measuring device. They often come with both imperial and proper units. > If there was a conspiracy I think they would not have made such a foolish and obvious error. Alas, that's not necessarily a good rule-of-thumb. Incompetence is a thing. Compare to eg how the Russian spooks placed three copies of the game SIMS 3 in the pictures they published of an alleged assassins' lair. (Most likely, some superior officer told the grunts to put three SIM cards for burner phones in the picture.) See https://www.vice.com/en/article/88gpmg/russia-sims-3 https://www.vice.com/en/article/88gpmg/russia-sims-3
  - somenameforme 2y ago
    That isn't 3 copies of the Sims 3. It's one copy of the game and two different expansion packs - Outdoor Living and Master Suite it looks like. This is a pretty important detail, because it's pretty difficult to come up with a reasonably likely explanation for why somebody would have 3 copies of a single game, but trivial to do so for game + expansions, which was then mistaken by an officer on the scene for being meaningful. Ah but how the media has such different standards for conspiracy theories when it furthers a desired narrative, rather than contradicts it.
    - eru 2y ago
      Thanks for correcting my memory about three copies of the Sims 3. > [...], which was then mistaken by an officer on the scene for being meaningful. Well, my narrative here is that one way or another the officers were incompetent. Either in staging (more likely), or in assigning meaning (less likely).
  - dasv 2y ago
    In addition to that, this photo was taken onboard a cable laying vessel. There are not that many and they are booked back to back all over the world, so it is not of the question that they would have dual metric and imperial measurement devices. Also, onboard a working ship there is usually an international mixture of crew and contractors, and of course they might have American clients.
Tor3 2y ago
"Maybe a clue about the real origin of the photos". No. It's simply the _commercial product_ the police used for markers. It shows both cm and inches. You don't think that the police themselves are actually manufacturing these things, do you?

lobochrome 2y ago

Odd indeed. I would assume the salvage company was American?

threeseed 2y ago

The bottom image has an evidence marker with cms on it as well. Perhaps they intended for the information to be shared with US intelligence.

new23d 2y ago

Product appears to be an ID Tent from Evi-Paq. It has inches on the front 'leg' and cms on the rear. https://forensicssource.com/collections/evidence-markers/products/disposable-id-tent-white-f_327 https://forensicssource.com/collections/evidence-markers/pro...

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Aurornis 2y ago

Scroll down to the lower images. They have both inch and centimeter measurements on other photos. It's more likely that they take photos with both measurements.

alufers 2y ago

Some gun calibers are measured with inches, so maybe they have some imperial markers on hand to measure bullet casings?

eru 2y ago
Many measuring devices used in eg Germany have both proper units and Freedom units printed on them. It's probably just easier to have one model that you can sell anyone on the globe. Economics of scale and all that.
- vidarh 2y ago
  I'm Norwegian, and it's very common in Norway as well to have e.g. rulers and other measuring devices with both inches and metric units. It's if anything pretty rare to have just one or the other unless it's a "format" where displaying both affect usability - e.g. make the writing too small.