4 ms·

> Transactions also fail 60% of the time. Any more details about this would be interesting for me. I’ve written off Solana after looking at it seriously sever

> Transactions also fail 60% of the time. Any more details about this would be interesting for me. I’ve written off Solana after looking at it seriously several times now, yet it continues to have the appearance of thriving. Fwiw my biggest issues in the past has been a combination of large data and resource requirement and vulnerability of archive/full history nodes to Google services shutoff and centralization with censorship possibilities.

dlahoda 2y ago
people tell that solana lowers validating fees up to inability to stand against normal traffic which ddos it. also two thirds of transactions are validators voting for blocks. also afaik solana finalization time is not sub second, but 10 seconds. intrestingly why misleading info about sub second still persist... also solana cannot really execute as part of single transaction all needed. so from 1/3 of useful transactions, half is just account lookup table creation. so it feels somebody tries hard to tell the story about high throughput and low latency, while both are not there.
- lawrenceyan 2y ago
  Finalization of a transaction on Solana averages <400ms. Feel free to look at the dashboard yourself if you need proof: https://solanabeach.io/ https://solanabeach.io/
  - dlahoda 2y ago
    block production is not finalization. reorgs possible. one cannot bridge or act in reality for 32 * 400 ms https://solana.stackexchange.com/questions/7945/single-slot-finality https://solana.stackexchange.com/questions/7945/single-slot-...
    - lawrenceyan 2y ago
      That’s disingenuous. Reorgs are also possible on Ethereum. To date no transaction has been rolled back on Solana once two thirds of the validator set have voted on it.
lawrenceyan 2y ago
Transaction failure is misleading. Here's a good thread explaining the details: https://twitter.com/0xMert_/status/1771700602629730795 https://twitter.com/0xMert_/status/1771700602629730795 tl;dr Users often submit transactions that attempt to arbitrage price discrepancies on-chain. But someone else fills the arb before them and so their transaction while successfully received will result in nothing happening. The transaction didn't fail though. Solana, your "decentralized server", successfully received the request.
ETH_start 2y ago
I haven't looked closely into Solana because it's clear to me it's not a decentralized network. Its transaction history is over 100 TB now, with gigabytes being added per day (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/solana/s/ipF70lwxe0 https://www.reddit.com/r/solana/s/ipF70lwxe0). The result is that everyone relies on the Solana Foundation to store the full archive, and pretty soon even non-expired history will only be possible for large companies to store.
- dlahoda 2y ago
  is full history needed? for validators it may be last 300 blocks. for bridges 30k blocks. for rollups 300k. assuming it is possible to start validator from any block(trusting random subset of validators to bootstrap) and account state is way smaller its ok. also, as i see 100tb costs 3k usd. so some archieval nodes can be just payed some to handle that.
  - ETH_start 2y ago
    100 TBs makes it extremely difficult to fully validate the history, because you need to download that much data over the internet, from some archival nodes. And that number is going to grow exponentially, to the point where the network is destined to have a centralized, and thus fragile, structure. I agree that most nodes do not need the full history, but even everyday operational costs are enormous: dozens of gigabytes a day just to keep up?
    - dlahoda 2y ago
      solana can make some ceremony for warp bootstrap. instead of validating since genesis, ask several on chain random nodes for start from specific block. and fisherman to find if any node differs from archieval. so economics of storage i do not know, but that leads back to artificially cheap transactions. as soon as tx will be real price, they will pay storage.
      - ETH_start 2y ago
        Yes it's possible to use these kinds of schemes to get artificially cheap transactions. I don't see such schemes being employed on Solana right now and I anticipate that we're going to see much more of that on Ethereum Rollups in the near future.

dlahoda 2y ago

people tell that solana lowers validating fees up to inability to stand against normal traffic which ddos it. also two thirds of transactions are validators voting for blocks. also afaik solana finalization time is not sub second, but 10 seconds. intrestingly why misleading info about sub second still persist... also solana cannot really execute as part of single transaction all needed. so from 1/3 of useful transactions, half is just account lookup table creation. so it feels somebody tries hard to tell the story about high throughput and low latency, while both are not there.

lawrenceyan 2y ago
Finalization of a transaction on Solana averages <400ms. Feel free to look at the dashboard yourself if you need proof: https://solanabeach.io/ https://solanabeach.io/
- dlahoda 2y ago
  block production is not finalization. reorgs possible. one cannot bridge or act in reality for 32 * 400 ms https://solana.stackexchange.com/questions/7945/single-slot-finality https://solana.stackexchange.com/questions/7945/single-slot-...
  - lawrenceyan 2y ago
    That’s disingenuous. Reorgs are also possible on Ethereum. To date no transaction has been rolled back on Solana once two thirds of the validator set have voted on it.

lawrenceyan 2y ago

Transaction failure is misleading. Here's a good thread explaining the details: https://twitter.com/0xMert_/status/1771700602629730795 https://twitter.com/0xMert_/status/1771700602629730795 tl;dr Users often submit transactions that attempt to arbitrage price discrepancies on-chain. But someone else fills the arb before them and so their transaction while successfully received will result in nothing happening. The transaction didn't fail though. Solana, your "decentralized server", successfully received the request.

ETH_start 2y ago

I haven't looked closely into Solana because it's clear to me it's not a decentralized network. Its transaction history is over 100 TB now, with gigabytes being added per day (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/solana/s/ipF70lwxe0 https://www.reddit.com/r/solana/s/ipF70lwxe0). The result is that everyone relies on the Solana Foundation to store the full archive, and pretty soon even non-expired history will only be possible for large companies to store.

dlahoda 2y ago
is full history needed? for validators it may be last 300 blocks. for bridges 30k blocks. for rollups 300k. assuming it is possible to start validator from any block(trusting random subset of validators to bootstrap) and account state is way smaller its ok. also, as i see 100tb costs 3k usd. so some archieval nodes can be just payed some to handle that.
- ETH_start 2y ago
  100 TBs makes it extremely difficult to fully validate the history, because you need to download that much data over the internet, from some archival nodes. And that number is going to grow exponentially, to the point where the network is destined to have a centralized, and thus fragile, structure. I agree that most nodes do not need the full history, but even everyday operational costs are enormous: dozens of gigabytes a day just to keep up?
  - dlahoda 2y ago
    solana can make some ceremony for warp bootstrap. instead of validating since genesis, ask several on chain random nodes for start from specific block. and fisherman to find if any node differs from archieval. so economics of storage i do not know, but that leads back to artificially cheap transactions. as soon as tx will be real price, they will pay storage.
    - ETH_start 2y ago
      Yes it's possible to use these kinds of schemes to get artificially cheap transactions. I don't see such schemes being employed on Solana right now and I anticipate that we're going to see much more of that on Ethereum Rollups in the near future.