5 ms·

If China surveils people, it's because they are evil and authoritarian. If we surveil people, it's because we're just keeping the public safe.

altcognito 2y ago
Nobody here is cheerleading this, I think the overwhelming sentiment is that it is invasive (and inaccurate but that’s beside the point)
- Nextgrid 2y ago
  > Nobody here is cheerleading this By "here" do you mean in the UK? Somehow the UK is consistently the first non-China nation where this authoritarian surveillance crap takes hold. Other countries make pushes towards it, but UK appears to be consistently leading.
  - altcognito 2y ago
    just this particular post on hn. I'm not from the UK so I can't fully comment, but based on the stories I read here, I'd agree with your general sentiment.
- jellicle 2y ago
  The BBC is, for one.
- int_19h 2y ago
  As the article points out, most people they've asked around those cameras were provisionally supportive of them (so long as they "help with crime").
- daveoc64 2y ago
  As the article points out, given the rampant levels of shoplifting in the UK (and the associated abuse of staff), all of the major retailers and a lot of their staff are going to be on board with this. For the government and police, it's a cheap option to deal with the problem.
  - dspillett 2y ago
    The staff don't really care about lifting: they really aren't paid enough for it to be their problem, or cared for enough by the employers such that they care if the employer looses a bit through shoplifting. The few that do care see the heavy end of the abuse you mention, and those that don't see abuse anyway, and if it isn't on CCTV the employers don't seem to care (it is far too much hassle to prosecute) despite the higher-ups pretending otherwise: that is why the staff support CCTV and related monitoring, not the lifting. The abuse is a very real problem, I know a few who work in shops, all of whom have been verbally abused and physically threatened at various times. One of them was not long ago punched in the face in front of witnesses. Tesco, ever caring, had her working the next day, just a few hours later (incident happened on late shift, next shift was early morning, "are you sure you can't come in?, it'll be hard to find someone to cover") and seemed to put as more effort into investigating what she might have done wrong as they put into helping the police gather evidence to investigate the abusive individual, so she was glad of the CCTV. She got out off Tesco as quick as she could. She has had notification from the police that the individual involved is being prosecuted, but for a number of other offences also so it is unlikely she'll need to testify or otherwise be involved further. The staff want the CCTV because they don't trust the managers and higher to look after their interests otherwise.
aurareturn 2y ago
This tech can really help San Francisco recover.
tgv 2y ago
The Chinese government is evil and authoritarian. As a result, they do like surveillance. That does not exclude you can use the same technology or same measures for other purposes.

altcognito 2y ago

Nobody here is cheerleading this, I think the overwhelming sentiment is that it is invasive (and inaccurate but that’s beside the point)

Nextgrid 2y ago
> Nobody here is cheerleading this By "here" do you mean in the UK? Somehow the UK is consistently the first non-China nation where this authoritarian surveillance crap takes hold. Other countries make pushes towards it, but UK appears to be consistently leading.
- altcognito 2y ago
  just this particular post on hn. I'm not from the UK so I can't fully comment, but based on the stories I read here, I'd agree with your general sentiment.
jellicle 2y ago
The BBC is, for one.
int_19h 2y ago
As the article points out, most people they've asked around those cameras were provisionally supportive of them (so long as they "help with crime").
daveoc64 2y ago
As the article points out, given the rampant levels of shoplifting in the UK (and the associated abuse of staff), all of the major retailers and a lot of their staff are going to be on board with this. For the government and police, it's a cheap option to deal with the problem.
- dspillett 2y ago
  The staff don't really care about lifting: they really aren't paid enough for it to be their problem, or cared for enough by the employers such that they care if the employer looses a bit through shoplifting. The few that do care see the heavy end of the abuse you mention, and those that don't see abuse anyway, and if it isn't on CCTV the employers don't seem to care (it is far too much hassle to prosecute) despite the higher-ups pretending otherwise: that is why the staff support CCTV and related monitoring, not the lifting. The abuse is a very real problem, I know a few who work in shops, all of whom have been verbally abused and physically threatened at various times. One of them was not long ago punched in the face in front of witnesses. Tesco, ever caring, had her working the next day, just a few hours later (incident happened on late shift, next shift was early morning, "are you sure you can't come in?, it'll be hard to find someone to cover") and seemed to put as more effort into investigating what she might have done wrong as they put into helping the police gather evidence to investigate the abusive individual, so she was glad of the CCTV. She got out off Tesco as quick as she could. She has had notification from the police that the individual involved is being prosecuted, but for a number of other offences also so it is unlikely she'll need to testify or otherwise be involved further. The staff want the CCTV because they don't trust the managers and higher to look after their interests otherwise.

aurareturn 2y ago

This tech can really help San Francisco recover.

tgv 2y ago

The Chinese government is evil and authoritarian. As a result, they do like surveillance. That does not exclude you can use the same technology or same measures for other purposes.