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kitty seems to be a relatively more opinionated terminal compared to other terminals. The first time I heard about kitty was via a comment about not implementi

kitty seems to be a relatively more opinionated terminal compared to other terminals. The first time I heard about kitty was via a comment about not implementing Sixel support: https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/2511#issuecomment-609543803 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/2511#issuecomment... "Terminal multiplexers are a bad idea" sounds just like Sixel being "an inferior graphics protocol", and Sixel is probably another example of "worse is better".

bee_rider 2y ago
I have trouble laying that at the feet of Goyal, who was not really interested in the feature, but who was willing to provide feedback and appeared willing to accept a patch. The person working on the patch decided that they didn’t think the sixel library (which they were the maintainer of, so they presumably had a well informed opinion) was up to the task. The description of sixels as inferior also came from the person working on the patch.
- godelski 2y ago
  People have submitted patches and "hacks" and he shoots them down calling them too hacky but not saying how.
  - fl0ki 2y ago
    It's not like Goyal doesn't accept any patches [1]. I don't use kitty myself, but many people who do seem to love it. I've come around to feel that this is truly a maintainer's judgment call. After all, they are almost always stuck maintaining the code no matter who wrote it initially, and they know better than anyone else what code they're personally comfortable maintaining. More generally, if you like a piece of software enough, you're implicitly trusting the maintainers' judgment. You're certainly not reviewing every single line of code they write to see if you agree with it. If they betray your trust enough then you move on, but if you keep using the program then the maintainers' judgment was right enough. The miserable survival rate of hostile forks also demonstrates that even if people care enough to fork over one issue, they rarely care enough to maintain the overall project long-term, despite implicitly asking the original maintainers to do the exact same thing. [1] https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/graphs/contributors https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/graphs/contributors
    - godelski 2y ago
      No, but it does seem Goyal really dislikes tmux and is making the common misunderstanding that people use tmux for persistence more than formatting.
- fl0ki 2y ago
  They did take over maintenance but abandoned it shortly after: https://github.com/libsixel/libsixel/ https://github.com/libsixel/libsixel/ You can add this to the enormous pile of open source forks that didn't survive long enough to have any real value to the industry. I respect that Goyal has been bitten by this dynamic before and said this back in April 2020: > That said, I wont refuse a patch to implement it on top of the existing graphics support, provided I was reasonabl confident the person implementing it would stick around to maintain it as well.
sweeter 2y ago
to be fair, sixel is definitely worse than Kitty Graphics Protocol by literally every metric and sixel has 1/10th of the capability (like z-index, gif/video support, transparency, speed, color depth, X-Y placement, etc...)
- omoikane 2y ago
  Sixel might be worse in every metric except availability, and availability matters quite a bit to user adoption: https://www.arewesixelyet.com/ https://www.arewesixelyet.com/
lofenfew 2y ago
I wouldn't say sixel is worse is better, since that would imply it had general success. Drawing with block characters/braille characters is worse is better.

bee_rider 2y ago

I have trouble laying that at the feet of Goyal, who was not really interested in the feature, but who was willing to provide feedback and appeared willing to accept a patch. The person working on the patch decided that they didn’t think the sixel library (which they were the maintainer of, so they presumably had a well informed opinion) was up to the task. The description of sixels as inferior also came from the person working on the patch.

godelski 2y ago
People have submitted patches and "hacks" and he shoots them down calling them too hacky but not saying how.
- fl0ki 2y ago
  It's not like Goyal doesn't accept any patches [1]. I don't use kitty myself, but many people who do seem to love it. I've come around to feel that this is truly a maintainer's judgment call. After all, they are almost always stuck maintaining the code no matter who wrote it initially, and they know better than anyone else what code they're personally comfortable maintaining. More generally, if you like a piece of software enough, you're implicitly trusting the maintainers' judgment. You're certainly not reviewing every single line of code they write to see if you agree with it. If they betray your trust enough then you move on, but if you keep using the program then the maintainers' judgment was right enough. The miserable survival rate of hostile forks also demonstrates that even if people care enough to fork over one issue, they rarely care enough to maintain the overall project long-term, despite implicitly asking the original maintainers to do the exact same thing. [1] https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/graphs/contributors https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/graphs/contributors
  - godelski 2y ago
    No, but it does seem Goyal really dislikes tmux and is making the common misunderstanding that people use tmux for persistence more than formatting.
fl0ki 2y ago
They did take over maintenance but abandoned it shortly after: https://github.com/libsixel/libsixel/ https://github.com/libsixel/libsixel/ You can add this to the enormous pile of open source forks that didn't survive long enough to have any real value to the industry. I respect that Goyal has been bitten by this dynamic before and said this back in April 2020: > That said, I wont refuse a patch to implement it on top of the existing graphics support, provided I was reasonabl confident the person implementing it would stick around to maintain it as well.

sweeter 2y ago

to be fair, sixel is definitely worse than Kitty Graphics Protocol by literally every metric and sixel has 1/10th of the capability (like z-index, gif/video support, transparency, speed, color depth, X-Y placement, etc...)

omoikane 2y ago
Sixel might be worse in every metric except availability, and availability matters quite a bit to user adoption: https://www.arewesixelyet.com/ https://www.arewesixelyet.com/

lofenfew 2y ago

I wouldn't say sixel is worse is better, since that would imply it had general success. Drawing with block characters/braille characters is worse is better.