4 ms·

Not only is the current internet 80% spam, it's rapidly approaching 99% thanks in large part to LLMs. At this point I would be shocked if Google had a solid pla

by rurp 2y ago

Not only is the current internet 80% spam, it's rapidly approaching 99% thanks in large part to LLMs. At this point I would be shocked if Google had a solid plan for how to handle this going forward as the problem space gets more difficult.

reustle 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory
- zogrodea 2y ago
  I do see incredibly weird kids content on YouTube sometimes (most likely bot generated?) which makes me think kids have been experiencing a worse internet before the rest of us have.
  - rchaud 2y ago
    Kids are far less knowledgeable about how modern software works because they don't know of an Internet that didn't have algorithmic recommendations. They have to be taught to do things like click "Not Interested/Don't recommend channel" to improve their feed. Dark pattern designs make this harder by hiding these options behind tiny 3-dot buttons.
EasyMark 2y ago
that's the part that scares me. I railed on someone's comment the other day about "indexes will come back into fashion" but the more I think about how much garbage has increased in just the past 2 to 3 years, I think I was wrong. Indexes and forums may be the only way to have a sane net where you can find things. Perhaps communities linking together in a ring like format, a "web ring" of sorts.
- ysavir 2y ago
  What I've been wanting to see for a while now is a social-network based search engine: * No pages are indexed automatically. The only indexed pages are pages that users say are worth indexing. Probably have a browser add-on for a one button click that people can use. * You can friend/follow others * Your search results are a combination of your own indexed pages and the pages indexed by people in your network.
  - noncoml 2y ago
    Spammers will find a way to beat it.
  - manquer 2y ago
    Isn’t that what Reddit is or digg was ? Link aggregators ? Gaming that is solved problem , you can use human bot farms to brigade and astroturf and you can even motivate people to do it for free . If cost of spamming is cheaper than cost of moderation, spam will win
    - ysavir 2y ago
      Not quite like reddit and digg. You can bot farm those because the lists are common to all. In this search engine, let's say there's you, me, person three, and spammer. You you are following me, and I'm following person three. Spammer isn't in any of our networks. When you use the search engine, you only see results that you, me, or person three manually tagged as worthwhile. Any pages or content that Spammer tagged as worthwhile aren't part of your results, because they aren't in your network. So they can try to game the system all they want, but it won't affect you. If person three starts following Spammer, I can unfollow them and then Spammer's results will no longer be included in your search results (or you can unfollow me and avoid those results). I imagine rankings would also be affected by degrees of separation, so even if you followed me, I followed person three, and person three followed spammer, results tagged by me and you would take much higher precedence than results tagged by Spammer. This also allows you to make custom searches by choosing which people you follow to include. Suppose you want to search for good headphones, so you make a search, but only include people in your network that you know are music and audio savvy, so that the results reflect the pages tagged by those people.
- im3w1l 2y ago
  Good indices lead to good search engines (engines can make use of indices) Good search engines lead to bad indices (by obsoleting them) Bad indices lead to bad search engines Bad search engines lead to good indices
- whateverevetahw 2y ago
  That sounds kind of like what Groupsy does. It creates a spider web of ideas. https://groupsy.applicationfitness.com/post/healthymeals/664fac1cfa0503cb7818d9b5 https://groupsy.applicationfitness.com/post/healthymeals/664...
freshpretzels 2y ago
I don’t think this is a real problem because as users start being more intentional about who they subscribe to and more thorough in ranking content according to its usefulness and quality, the low quality stuff or regurgitated stuff will just vanish. Why would it matter if there are clones of the best, say, blog post on how to make spicy ramen? If they are not adding anything new or making that original effort better, then they will not surface in searches as search tools improve. Nobody will save that content or recirculate it or refer to it when they need to remember how to make spicy ramen. And people will build curated subscriptions and followings and recommendations that are more tailored to the individual, and we will spend more time determining who is trustworthy and who is not.

by rurp 2y ago

reustle 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory

zogrodea 2y ago
I do see incredibly weird kids content on YouTube sometimes (most likely bot generated?) which makes me think kids have been experiencing a worse internet before the rest of us have.
- rchaud 2y ago
  Kids are far less knowledgeable about how modern software works because they don't know of an Internet that didn't have algorithmic recommendations. They have to be taught to do things like click "Not Interested/Don't recommend channel" to improve their feed. Dark pattern designs make this harder by hiding these options behind tiny 3-dot buttons.

EasyMark 2y ago

that's the part that scares me. I railed on someone's comment the other day about "indexes will come back into fashion" but the more I think about how much garbage has increased in just the past 2 to 3 years, I think I was wrong. Indexes and forums may be the only way to have a sane net where you can find things. Perhaps communities linking together in a ring like format, a "web ring" of sorts.

ysavir 2y ago
What I've been wanting to see for a while now is a social-network based search engine: * No pages are indexed automatically. The only indexed pages are pages that users say are worth indexing. Probably have a browser add-on for a one button click that people can use. * You can friend/follow others * Your search results are a combination of your own indexed pages and the pages indexed by people in your network.
- noncoml 2y ago
  Spammers will find a way to beat it.
- manquer 2y ago
  Isn’t that what Reddit is or digg was ? Link aggregators ? Gaming that is solved problem , you can use human bot farms to brigade and astroturf and you can even motivate people to do it for free . If cost of spamming is cheaper than cost of moderation, spam will win
  - ysavir 2y ago
    Not quite like reddit and digg. You can bot farm those because the lists are common to all. In this search engine, let's say there's you, me, person three, and spammer. You you are following me, and I'm following person three. Spammer isn't in any of our networks. When you use the search engine, you only see results that you, me, or person three manually tagged as worthwhile. Any pages or content that Spammer tagged as worthwhile aren't part of your results, because they aren't in your network. So they can try to game the system all they want, but it won't affect you. If person three starts following Spammer, I can unfollow them and then Spammer's results will no longer be included in your search results (or you can unfollow me and avoid those results). I imagine rankings would also be affected by degrees of separation, so even if you followed me, I followed person three, and person three followed spammer, results tagged by me and you would take much higher precedence than results tagged by Spammer. This also allows you to make custom searches by choosing which people you follow to include. Suppose you want to search for good headphones, so you make a search, but only include people in your network that you know are music and audio savvy, so that the results reflect the pages tagged by those people.
im3w1l 2y ago
Good indices lead to good search engines (engines can make use of indices) Good search engines lead to bad indices (by obsoleting them) Bad indices lead to bad search engines Bad search engines lead to good indices
whateverevetahw 2y ago
That sounds kind of like what Groupsy does. It creates a spider web of ideas. https://groupsy.applicationfitness.com/post/healthymeals/664fac1cfa0503cb7818d9b5 https://groupsy.applicationfitness.com/post/healthymeals/664...

freshpretzels 2y ago

I don’t think this is a real problem because as users start being more intentional about who they subscribe to and more thorough in ranking content according to its usefulness and quality, the low quality stuff or regurgitated stuff will just vanish. Why would it matter if there are clones of the best, say, blog post on how to make spicy ramen? If they are not adding anything new or making that original effort better, then they will not surface in searches as search tools improve. Nobody will save that content or recirculate it or refer to it when they need to remember how to make spicy ramen. And people will build curated subscriptions and followings and recommendations that are more tailored to the individual, and we will spend more time determining who is trustworthy and who is not.