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> And anyhow, even if AGI was a thing, you still need networks, electricity, and bullets - and humans can use that to shut stuff down. Sure it would hurt, but i

> And anyhow, even if AGI was a thing, you still need networks, electricity, and bullets - and humans can use that to shut stuff down. Sure it would hurt, but internet shutdowns and electricity shutdowns with shoot on site curfew orders are time tested solution to civil unrest if SHTF. Go to Urumqi in 2013, Srinagar in 2018, Cairo in 2011, etc. To be clear we are talking about ASI not AGI. If it's ASI it would be able to also control vehicles, weapons and better than humans. It would be able to set up factories, control nukes, etc. It could develop a biological virus to blackmail humans etc.

alephnerd 2y ago
> control vehicles, weapons and better than humans How? A Maruti Suzuki 800 and a Lada is not internet connected. Neither is a Merkava nor a MTZ, Kubota, or Mahindra Tractor. And drone warfare platforms are closed loop airgapped networks that communicate via virtualized RAN. > It would be able to set up factories, control nukes, etc How? We don't have automated machines to manufacture. And nuclear weapon delivery systems require a physical unlock. --------- How does the jump from cyber to physical happen?
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  > How? It would need to be able to get control of just one Robot. The mechanisms of controlling the robot could be different. It doesn't have to be through network necessarily. It could just load its software on it. For driving a car however the Robot doesn't have to look like that, it must just be a robot that can press pedals, turn wheels, etc. If it has control over those robots it would be able to do all the other things mentioned. > How does the jump from cyber to physical happen? Through just one single security vulnerability where it can hack a robot like that. After it has cloned itself millions of times it would be able to bruteforce the vulnerabilities and far more efficiently than human hackers. > We don't have automated machines to manufacture. Since it's as smart as a human it would be able to do the automation part. It can control robot hands in factories, etc.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    Stop giving me a Deus Ex Machina. Ascribe HOW and give a tangible technical explaination. This is a tech forum, we know how software and hardware works. > It would need to be able to get control of just one Robot. The mechanisms of controlling the robot could be different. It doesn't have to be through network necessarily. It could just load its software on it How does this spread happen? How does this payload spread? How does it not get caught? > Through just one single security vulnerability where it can hack a robot like that What kind of robot? Every automated machine can be argued to be a robot > Since it's as smart as a human it would be able to do the automation part. It can control robot hands in factories, etc. You know there's a reason these environments are physically and network airgapped since the 2000s right? Even Stuxnet was only able to spread because Israeli intelligence gave out tainted USB drives.
    - mewpmewp2 2y ago
      Okay before going to physical. First - would you agree that it would be able to clone itself so the only way to shut it down even if it was caught, was if Internet throughout the whole World was shut down? And would you think it was possible for all the countries in the World to agree to do that at the same time? And would you agree that before Internet was shut down it would be able to gather quite a bit of financial resources, hack individuals, organizations, blackmail some individuals to do prepwork for it and do other forms of social engineering at that time to prepare for the physical step? Since we first need to agree on what potential resources it will have at its hand the moment it decides to go physical.
      - alephnerd 2y ago
        No. Because you need to explain to me how those assertions were derived. > it would be able to gather quite a bit of financial resources, hack individuals, organizations, blackmail some individuals to do prepwork for it and do other forms of social engineering at that time to prepare for the physical step How? This is a hard problem that touches the core of the cybersecurity industry, and something everyone prepares for under the assumption a nation state attacker will do something like that with humans. > it would be able to clone itself so the only way to shut it down even if it was caught, was if Internet throughout the whole World was shut down How? By definition malicious payload that spreads via lateral movement is a computer virus, and becomes a cybersecurity problem again.

alephnerd 2y ago

> control vehicles, weapons and better than humans How? A Maruti Suzuki 800 and a Lada is not internet connected. Neither is a Merkava nor a MTZ, Kubota, or Mahindra Tractor. And drone warfare platforms are closed loop airgapped networks that communicate via virtualized RAN. > It would be able to set up factories, control nukes, etc How? We don't have automated machines to manufacture. And nuclear weapon delivery systems require a physical unlock. --------- How does the jump from cyber to physical happen?

mewpmewp2 2y ago
> How? It would need to be able to get control of just one Robot. The mechanisms of controlling the robot could be different. It doesn't have to be through network necessarily. It could just load its software on it. For driving a car however the Robot doesn't have to look like that, it must just be a robot that can press pedals, turn wheels, etc. If it has control over those robots it would be able to do all the other things mentioned. > How does the jump from cyber to physical happen? Through just one single security vulnerability where it can hack a robot like that. After it has cloned itself millions of times it would be able to bruteforce the vulnerabilities and far more efficiently than human hackers. > We don't have automated machines to manufacture. Since it's as smart as a human it would be able to do the automation part. It can control robot hands in factories, etc.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  Stop giving me a Deus Ex Machina. Ascribe HOW and give a tangible technical explaination. This is a tech forum, we know how software and hardware works. > It would need to be able to get control of just one Robot. The mechanisms of controlling the robot could be different. It doesn't have to be through network necessarily. It could just load its software on it How does this spread happen? How does this payload spread? How does it not get caught? > Through just one single security vulnerability where it can hack a robot like that What kind of robot? Every automated machine can be argued to be a robot > Since it's as smart as a human it would be able to do the automation part. It can control robot hands in factories, etc. You know there's a reason these environments are physically and network airgapped since the 2000s right? Even Stuxnet was only able to spread because Israeli intelligence gave out tainted USB drives.
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    Okay before going to physical. First - would you agree that it would be able to clone itself so the only way to shut it down even if it was caught, was if Internet throughout the whole World was shut down? And would you think it was possible for all the countries in the World to agree to do that at the same time? And would you agree that before Internet was shut down it would be able to gather quite a bit of financial resources, hack individuals, organizations, blackmail some individuals to do prepwork for it and do other forms of social engineering at that time to prepare for the physical step? Since we first need to agree on what potential resources it will have at its hand the moment it decides to go physical.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      No. Because you need to explain to me how those assertions were derived. > it would be able to gather quite a bit of financial resources, hack individuals, organizations, blackmail some individuals to do prepwork for it and do other forms of social engineering at that time to prepare for the physical step How? This is a hard problem that touches the core of the cybersecurity industry, and something everyone prepares for under the assumption a nation state attacker will do something like that with humans. > it would be able to clone itself so the only way to shut it down even if it was caught, was if Internet throughout the whole World was shut down How? By definition malicious payload that spreads via lateral movement is a computer virus, and becomes a cybersecurity problem again.