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CashApp, Chime, Solo: If You Bank at a Non-Bank, Read the Fine Print

helsinkiandrew 2y ago
https://archive.ph/FgTEa https://archive.ph/FgTEa
jrflowers 2y ago
Chime is cool because whereas other banking apps process phone check deposits within a day or two, Chime gives themselves a free loan of the full amount of your deposit for as close to 8 days as they can get before putting the money into your account. It is nice because it involves average users in charity to the app owners
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  AIUI it's the other way around: most banks will front their customers the money, assuming that the check won't bounce and that, even if it does, the customer will be able to repay the amount the bank fronted them. What you describe sounds like Chime isn't willing to take credit risk on its customers.
overstay8930 2y ago
Boomer mindset but I want technology as far away as possible from my bank, local credit union just needs to support Apple Pay and that's all I care about.
- 39896880 2y ago
  Would you mind saying a little more about what it means for your local credit union to support Apple Pay?
  - overstay8930 2y ago
    I like to have a single debit card available to use in a secure manner, and some credit unions don’t support Apple Pay. I’m never going to use a debit card without some sort of security layer since it’s directly tied to my bank account.
    - 39896880 2y ago
      I recommend a credit card, in that case, because the level of surveillance is the same as a credit card but at least it’s more secure and you get back a portion of the markup in the form of rewards. (Note - perhaps you are not in the US, in which case, disregard this, since the EU is far more civilized with debit cards and fees)
      - Kye 2y ago
        As far as I know Apple Pay is equally secure whether debit or credit. It contacts the issuer when you add it, then communicates in unique tokens for each purchase so your card number is never at risk.
      - overstay8930 2y ago
        I use plenty of credit cards, but it is still useful to have a debit card in certain scenarios.
stevenicr 2y ago
Interesting the chain of failures here. I got a notice from 'copper app' (debit card and bank like money transfer for teens) - that the banking side of their app was closing and my teen had like 24 hours to move their money - and then a message about other ways to get your money.. then a message about you should expect your check in the mail then something like 'we are still trying to get your money to you' Or something like that - I am vaguely remembering the titles of the emails. I recall scanning one of the messages and it saying that their 'partner bank' has had an issue and something something. So my kid lost their ability to uber/lyft and get money to spend on steam and over priced drinks at school. Overall a great lesson for us all to learn. I didn't bother looking up any of the details until this article - and I now see that evolve bank is mentioned in the article and the google synopsis (pulled form a jan forbes article so..) says evolve was the bank for copper. and now I find a TC article (https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/21/teen-fintech-copper-had-to-emergency-discontinue-its-banking-debit-products/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/21/teen-fintech-copper-had-to...) that says "working with its banking partners, AMG National Trust Bank and Synapse, to return money to customers as soon as possible." So I give up trying to understand what bank it was or chain of banks or whatever. Even though copper had a good deal for fees, I found it lacking in what it said it's mission was, and I was shocked when they started pushing gambling apps for teens to earn money as ads / push notifications. I'm sure you could debate that the 'games' were not 'actual gambling' or something - but I knew it turned to the failing dark side when I saw that and only way to stop it was to email and have it manually done on a per account basis. Sadly I think there were only 2 apps that did banking for teens without fees back when I researched (limited research) the options vs the 'card for teens' on the TV commercials. Similar to the adult banking it's a field of junk fees and shade it seems.
- Aspos 2y ago
  It is hard to make any money on teens. Someone has to subsidise a no-fees banking service and once VC money dried up all teen banks evaporated. Besides any kind of banking is hard and too few of the neobanks were prepared for it.
hakfoo 2y ago
This entire duct-tape-and-baling wire ecosystem is due to a complete regulatory failure. If regulators had been demanding interoperable banking APIs since, well, 2000 or so when it was obviously the open-Internet was going to be a thing, this mess of middlemen wouldn't exist. Cool fintechs would either be add-on services that bolted to your account at whatever bank you already used, or would at least have the tools available to programmatically migrate accounts with a few clicks. Even in the current fiasco, I'm amazed there's no service for that use case. Even if it only supported a small number of banks, I could see businesses and high-net-worth people liking the leverage of saying "Hey, guy at Wells Fargo, if I don't get what I want, I press one button and the entire company's accounts jump ship to Chase."

https://archive.ph/FgTEa https://archive.ph/FgTEa

Chime is cool because whereas other banking apps process phone check deposits within a day or two, Chime gives themselves a free loan of the full amount of your deposit for as close to 8 days as they can get before putting the money into your account. It is nice because it involves average users in charity to the app owners

rahimnathwani 2y ago
AIUI it's the other way around: most banks will front their customers the money, assuming that the check won't bounce and that, even if it does, the customer will be able to repay the amount the bank fronted them. What you describe sounds like Chime isn't willing to take credit risk on its customers.

overstay8930 2y ago

Boomer mindset but I want technology as far away as possible from my bank, local credit union just needs to support Apple Pay and that's all I care about.

39896880 2y ago
Would you mind saying a little more about what it means for your local credit union to support Apple Pay?
- overstay8930 2y ago
  I like to have a single debit card available to use in a secure manner, and some credit unions don’t support Apple Pay. I’m never going to use a debit card without some sort of security layer since it’s directly tied to my bank account.
  - 39896880 2y ago
    I recommend a credit card, in that case, because the level of surveillance is the same as a credit card but at least it’s more secure and you get back a portion of the markup in the form of rewards. (Note - perhaps you are not in the US, in which case, disregard this, since the EU is far more civilized with debit cards and fees)
    - Kye 2y ago
      As far as I know Apple Pay is equally secure whether debit or credit. It contacts the issuer when you add it, then communicates in unique tokens for each purchase so your card number is never at risk.
    - overstay8930 2y ago
      I use plenty of credit cards, but it is still useful to have a debit card in certain scenarios.

stevenicr 2y ago

Interesting the chain of failures here. I got a notice from 'copper app' (debit card and bank like money transfer for teens) - that the banking side of their app was closing and my teen had like 24 hours to move their money - and then a message about other ways to get your money.. then a message about you should expect your check in the mail then something like 'we are still trying to get your money to you' Or something like that - I am vaguely remembering the titles of the emails. I recall scanning one of the messages and it saying that their 'partner bank' has had an issue and something something. So my kid lost their ability to uber/lyft and get money to spend on steam and over priced drinks at school. Overall a great lesson for us all to learn. I didn't bother looking up any of the details until this article - and I now see that evolve bank is mentioned in the article and the google synopsis (pulled form a jan forbes article so..) says evolve was the bank for copper. and now I find a TC article (https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/21/teen-fintech-copper-had-to-emergency-discontinue-its-banking-debit-products/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/21/teen-fintech-copper-had-to...) that says "working with its banking partners, AMG National Trust Bank and Synapse, to return money to customers as soon as possible." So I give up trying to understand what bank it was or chain of banks or whatever. Even though copper had a good deal for fees, I found it lacking in what it said it's mission was, and I was shocked when they started pushing gambling apps for teens to earn money as ads / push notifications. I'm sure you could debate that the 'games' were not 'actual gambling' or something - but I knew it turned to the failing dark side when I saw that and only way to stop it was to email and have it manually done on a per account basis. Sadly I think there were only 2 apps that did banking for teens without fees back when I researched (limited research) the options vs the 'card for teens' on the TV commercials. Similar to the adult banking it's a field of junk fees and shade it seems.

Aspos 2y ago
It is hard to make any money on teens. Someone has to subsidise a no-fees banking service and once VC money dried up all teen banks evaporated. Besides any kind of banking is hard and too few of the neobanks were prepared for it.

hakfoo 2y ago

This entire duct-tape-and-baling wire ecosystem is due to a complete regulatory failure. If regulators had been demanding interoperable banking APIs since, well, 2000 or so when it was obviously the open-Internet was going to be a thing, this mess of middlemen wouldn't exist. Cool fintechs would either be add-on services that bolted to your account at whatever bank you already used, or would at least have the tools available to programmatically migrate accounts with a few clicks. Even in the current fiasco, I'm amazed there's no service for that use case. Even if it only supported a small number of banks, I could see businesses and high-net-worth people liking the leverage of saying "Hey, guy at Wells Fargo, if I don't get what I want, I press one button and the entire company's accounts jump ship to Chase."