4 ms·

There is type of thoughts or knowledge that can damage you forever. For example, if a boy or girl are put on a path to question their gender and get convinced t

There is type of thoughts or knowledge that can damage you forever. For example, if a boy or girl are put on a path to question their gender and get convinced that their gender is different from their biology, this increases a chance of depression or suicide by an order of magnitude. And if they turn to medication or other treatments to alter the biology, this increases chances of depression or suicide even more.

anon373839 2y ago
> put on a path to question You’re not really talking about the effects of a thought: you’re talking about changes in behavior (questioning, taking medication, etc.). Suppose I asked you, “are you really sure your spouse isn’t cheating on you?” You may find this idea unsettling because the honest answer is no: nobody can be sure of this. Some people would shrug it off and say “I can’t be sure, but I don’t think so.” And they would move on and forget about it. Other people will drive themselves crazy trying to get to the answer, even to the point of damaging the relationship with the spouse. The difference between the two is not the idea (spouse could be cheating) but the reaction to the idea. This is actually what psychotherapy is for, to teach you how to react to thoughts and feelings in ways that aren’t destructive.
- startupsfail 2y ago
  Certainly. The issue is, if you persistently push the message “are you sure your spouse isn’t cheating on you?” through all forms of media (including LLMs), down to kindergartens and preschools, you’ll inevitably will get a proportion of vulnerable population driving themselves crazy trying to get to the answer at some point of their lives, damaging the relationships and fabric of society in the process.
nostrademons 2y ago
You're factually incorrect: people who are already on a path of questioning their gender and then resolve it by deciding that they are transgender experience lower levels of depression and suicide, and those who receive gender-affirming surgery experience lower levels further: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8082431/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8082431/ Your error is a form of Simpson's Paradox: the population that decides to go through with gender-affirming surgery is at significantly higher rates of depression & suicidal ideation to begin with, because it's not easy to feel that your gender is different from how the rest of society perceives you. Within that population, though, people who make a decision one way or another do significantly better than those who just live with the stress and ambiguity of their secret.
- startupsfail 2y ago
  There is scientific consensus that calls for tolerance and acceptance. And there is research that so far shows null hypothesis and no biological evidence for predisposition to being a furry, tree lover, lesbian or gay. While simultaneously genes for left-handed people do readily show up. There is statistic that shows introduction of materials that attempts to set identity at early age, including religious or gender identity is very effective. Statistics about suicidal ideation snd depression actually doesn’t show any correlation to acceptance of transgender in society. And it is roughly 3x of not transgender and 10x after the surgery. And then there is rise in actual transgender youth, toughly 30x, from 0.3-0.5% to 10% over last 40 years. This can be roughly attributed to introduction and popularization of this topic in early education. Effects are similar to early religious education. I’m very happy for increased acceptance, diversity and continued increase of younger dating pool for special interest groups. And that these special interests groups get what they want. But statistics does show that in terms of depression, decreased happiness and suicides it is not the greatest idea to dislodge biological gender. You simply can get 10% of population worse off out of this. If you add to that parents that are unhappy with this turn of events, this gets to 20-30%. And then suddenly you have democracy at stake, because nationalists figured out that this is a good angle…

anon373839 2y ago

> put on a path to question You’re not really talking about the effects of a thought: you’re talking about changes in behavior (questioning, taking medication, etc.). Suppose I asked you, “are you really sure your spouse isn’t cheating on you?” You may find this idea unsettling because the honest answer is no: nobody can be sure of this. Some people would shrug it off and say “I can’t be sure, but I don’t think so.” And they would move on and forget about it. Other people will drive themselves crazy trying to get to the answer, even to the point of damaging the relationship with the spouse. The difference between the two is not the idea (spouse could be cheating) but the reaction to the idea. This is actually what psychotherapy is for, to teach you how to react to thoughts and feelings in ways that aren’t destructive.

startupsfail 2y ago
Certainly. The issue is, if you persistently push the message “are you sure your spouse isn’t cheating on you?” through all forms of media (including LLMs), down to kindergartens and preschools, you’ll inevitably will get a proportion of vulnerable population driving themselves crazy trying to get to the answer at some point of their lives, damaging the relationships and fabric of society in the process.

nostrademons 2y ago

You're factually incorrect: people who are already on a path of questioning their gender and then resolve it by deciding that they are transgender experience lower levels of depression and suicide, and those who receive gender-affirming surgery experience lower levels further: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8082431/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8082431/ Your error is a form of Simpson's Paradox: the population that decides to go through with gender-affirming surgery is at significantly higher rates of depression & suicidal ideation to begin with, because it's not easy to feel that your gender is different from how the rest of society perceives you. Within that population, though, people who make a decision one way or another do significantly better than those who just live with the stress and ambiguity of their secret.

startupsfail 2y ago
There is scientific consensus that calls for tolerance and acceptance. And there is research that so far shows null hypothesis and no biological evidence for predisposition to being a furry, tree lover, lesbian or gay. While simultaneously genes for left-handed people do readily show up. There is statistic that shows introduction of materials that attempts to set identity at early age, including religious or gender identity is very effective. Statistics about suicidal ideation snd depression actually doesn’t show any correlation to acceptance of transgender in society. And it is roughly 3x of not transgender and 10x after the surgery. And then there is rise in actual transgender youth, toughly 30x, from 0.3-0.5% to 10% over last 40 years. This can be roughly attributed to introduction and popularization of this topic in early education. Effects are similar to early religious education. I’m very happy for increased acceptance, diversity and continued increase of younger dating pool for special interest groups. And that these special interests groups get what they want. But statistics does show that in terms of depression, decreased happiness and suicides it is not the greatest idea to dislodge biological gender. You simply can get 10% of population worse off out of this. If you add to that parents that are unhappy with this turn of events, this gets to 20-30%. And then suddenly you have democracy at stake, because nationalists figured out that this is a good angle…