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This is the thermometer vs thermostat problem. Everyone is focused on juicing the cheap dopamine for a quick buck, and so most games are thermometers. What game

This is the thermometer vs thermostat problem. Everyone is focused on juicing the cheap dopamine for a quick buck, and so most games are thermometers. What games are trying to change the gaming landscape. Games like StarCraft are all about strategy. But even blizzard isn’t investing in that type of game anymore

musicale 2y ago
> Games like StarCraft are all about strategy Games like StarCraft are all about clicking very quickly and accurately (APM). AlphaStar (AI) was capped at 264 APM which was apparently considered fair to humans, but burst actions possibly gave it an edge.
- daymanstep 2y ago
  To further expand on your point: Alphastar's edge came from the fact that it could move around individual units in a way that no human being could. A human player would have to move his mouse to the unit, click on the unit, then click on a point on the ground to move it to, then move the screen, then move his mouse to select another unit, then move his mouse to the location where he wanted that unit to go, and so on, which would introduce considerable latency, whereas Alphastar was able to move around multiple individual units simultaneously in different directions even though they're on opposite sides of the screen (or not even on the same screen) which is physically impossible for a human player (keep in mind with the number of units we're dealing with, a human would have entire groups of units hotkeyed, he would not be able to select an individual unit with a hot key). People focus on the APM but ignore the fact that even with "only" 200 APM Alphastar was moving units around in a way that no human ever could. And that imo was a big part of what made Alphastar strong - the strategies it used, a lot of them relied on the fact that it could do this impossible (for a human) micro. That's why Alphastar spammed stalkers whereas humans don't use stalkers so much, because Alphastar could micro the stalkers in a way that no human being could.

musicale 2y ago

> Games like StarCraft are all about strategy Games like StarCraft are all about clicking very quickly and accurately (APM). AlphaStar (AI) was capped at 264 APM which was apparently considered fair to humans, but burst actions possibly gave it an edge.

daymanstep 2y ago
To further expand on your point: Alphastar's edge came from the fact that it could move around individual units in a way that no human being could. A human player would have to move his mouse to the unit, click on the unit, then click on a point on the ground to move it to, then move the screen, then move his mouse to select another unit, then move his mouse to the location where he wanted that unit to go, and so on, which would introduce considerable latency, whereas Alphastar was able to move around multiple individual units simultaneously in different directions even though they're on opposite sides of the screen (or not even on the same screen) which is physically impossible for a human player (keep in mind with the number of units we're dealing with, a human would have entire groups of units hotkeyed, he would not be able to select an individual unit with a hot key). People focus on the APM but ignore the fact that even with "only" 200 APM Alphastar was moving units around in a way that no human ever could. And that imo was a big part of what made Alphastar strong - the strategies it used, a lot of them relied on the fact that it could do this impossible (for a human) micro. That's why Alphastar spammed stalkers whereas humans don't use stalkers so much, because Alphastar could micro the stalkers in a way that no human being could.