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Reminder that neovim is completely free, you can modify the editor using Lua, it has a renaissance of new awesome plugins, LSP support for the official Rust LSP

Reminder that neovim is completely free, you can modify the editor using Lua, it has a renaissance of new awesome plugins, LSP support for the official Rust LSP server, and as a system developer you can run it on a target device or quickly switch between a serial console and your editor using tmux. Plus, you can easily add new LLM integrations or wrap tools in about a half an hour of hacking. My neovim setup is easily 10x more productive than RustRover.

gertop 2y ago
Reminder that RustRover is also free (for non commercial use) and doesn't require the user to read adv entire manual before they can use it.
- leoh 2y ago
  This. But also just pay for your tools if you can. It’s the kind/empathetic thing to do, honors the hard work of others, and helps elevate the craft.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
10x is quite a claim. Anyhow helix is nice for most of the reasons that neovim is, and also because you spend more time coding and less time fiddling with your setup.
- eviks 2y ago
  "Most" by range, not by value, since plugins is the biggest reason, and they don't exist in helix
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    Well yes, but that's the point. I think it's analogous to zsh/fish, either you think that customizing is fun and you want to spend time doing it, or you want a nice set of features enabled by default and a minimal config footprint. Can't have both.
    - eviks 2y ago
      You can have both, it's called "good defaults", then you don't need to customize anything if you don't like customizing. But you can. Also, helix doesn't have minimal config, it has dozens of various options even before potentially hundreds of keybindings, so you can get buried there "for fun" just like in vim
mekster 2y ago
My NeoVim broke so often I came to realize a product that has 50 random people working on the core and various plugins is not going to make a stable product that would work for years. After all, there is no consistent testing as a whole product but it's a combination of "works for me" and after some months of originally setting the editor up, things start to break apart saying something is deprecated, something is incompatible with something else and it will start asking for newer NeoVim version which the distro obviously can't keep up with. It's like you're using a nightly build of a product or worse if things can't be fixed. Maybe someone could snapshot a stable state of NeoVim + some popular plugins and release as some sort of LTS and things might change but currently you'll need to spend time fixing frequently than use it for what you need it for.
- skydhash 2y ago
  Are you using a neovim distro? I think the broken things only applies for automated setups. I use Vim instead of neovim, but my plugins set is pretty minimal. Most of my config is Vim-related, then a couple of options for the plugins. I instead use the terminal for most stuff. > Maybe someone could snapshot a stable state of NeoVim + some popular plugins and release as some sort of LTS Vim Plug (and maybe other plugins managers) can handle tags, branches, and commits references for versioning.
  - leoh 2y ago
    It’s all fucked ime even with nixos from the pov of “just working.” Yes, it’s fun and cool and impressive if you get things all setup and dialed in. But if you care about just dropping in and not spending tons of time configuring your tools, imo JetBrains is just the way to go.
    - skydhash 2y ago
      As a pragmatic programmer, one of the rules is Know thy tools. You don't really drop in. You learn the tools, and adapt them. The first commit of my dotfiles is more than 3 years ago. And I think the actual files are older. And that was me starting from scratch after years of Linux. Even with JetBrains IDEs, I usually spend an hour configuring stuff (never bothered to save the config, as I seldom use them). I tune my setup as I go. If I'm spending hours everyday with a software, I want it suited to my workflows.
jkrubin 2y ago
True, but I don’t have the time or energy anymore to spend time configuring it. Jetbrains vim plugin is largely pretty good.
kaba0 2y ago
Anyone claiming bullshit like 10x difference has absolutely no basis in reality. Hell, there wouldn’t be an order of magnitude difference between your best setup vs literally touch typing on a foreign keyboard layout. Also, neovim is just a text/code editor, not an IDE even with plugins.
sureglymop 2y ago
Do you have a link to your config?
leoh 2y ago
Folks shilling for the nvim cult completely baffle me. YES it’s cool and impressive, but it also means essentially spending hours and hours of time managing your configuration if you want anything remotely close ime to RustRover or any other JetBrains product. Spending that time can be interesting, but personally, frankly, I’d rather be writing code than fucking around with lua wrappers for vimscript. Let’s be honest about this stuff and stop putting down an incredible firm that makes incredible tools.
pquki4 2y ago
Need evidence of that 10x number. The bottleneck in programming is often how fast you can think, not how fast you can type or use auto completion, and definitely not some shortcuts. They cut down time but are not magic. Not to mention that different IDEs often have the same features, you just need to find them.
pjmlp 2y ago
As someone old enough to remember when VI was occasionally all caps, XEmacs was cool, no thanks.

gertop 2y ago

Reminder that RustRover is also free (for non commercial use) and doesn't require the user to read adv entire manual before they can use it.

leoh 2y ago
This. But also just pay for your tools if you can. It’s the kind/empathetic thing to do, honors the hard work of others, and helps elevate the craft.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago

10x is quite a claim. Anyhow helix is nice for most of the reasons that neovim is, and also because you spend more time coding and less time fiddling with your setup.

eviks 2y ago
"Most" by range, not by value, since plugins is the biggest reason, and they don't exist in helix
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  Well yes, but that's the point. I think it's analogous to zsh/fish, either you think that customizing is fun and you want to spend time doing it, or you want a nice set of features enabled by default and a minimal config footprint. Can't have both.
  - eviks 2y ago
    You can have both, it's called "good defaults", then you don't need to customize anything if you don't like customizing. But you can. Also, helix doesn't have minimal config, it has dozens of various options even before potentially hundreds of keybindings, so you can get buried there "for fun" just like in vim

mekster 2y ago

My NeoVim broke so often I came to realize a product that has 50 random people working on the core and various plugins is not going to make a stable product that would work for years. After all, there is no consistent testing as a whole product but it's a combination of "works for me" and after some months of originally setting the editor up, things start to break apart saying something is deprecated, something is incompatible with something else and it will start asking for newer NeoVim version which the distro obviously can't keep up with. It's like you're using a nightly build of a product or worse if things can't be fixed. Maybe someone could snapshot a stable state of NeoVim + some popular plugins and release as some sort of LTS and things might change but currently you'll need to spend time fixing frequently than use it for what you need it for.

skydhash 2y ago
Are you using a neovim distro? I think the broken things only applies for automated setups. I use Vim instead of neovim, but my plugins set is pretty minimal. Most of my config is Vim-related, then a couple of options for the plugins. I instead use the terminal for most stuff. > Maybe someone could snapshot a stable state of NeoVim + some popular plugins and release as some sort of LTS Vim Plug (and maybe other plugins managers) can handle tags, branches, and commits references for versioning.
- leoh 2y ago
  It’s all fucked ime even with nixos from the pov of “just working.” Yes, it’s fun and cool and impressive if you get things all setup and dialed in. But if you care about just dropping in and not spending tons of time configuring your tools, imo JetBrains is just the way to go.
  - skydhash 2y ago
    As a pragmatic programmer, one of the rules is Know thy tools. You don't really drop in. You learn the tools, and adapt them. The first commit of my dotfiles is more than 3 years ago. And I think the actual files are older. And that was me starting from scratch after years of Linux. Even with JetBrains IDEs, I usually spend an hour configuring stuff (never bothered to save the config, as I seldom use them). I tune my setup as I go. If I'm spending hours everyday with a software, I want it suited to my workflows.

jkrubin 2y ago

True, but I don’t have the time or energy anymore to spend time configuring it. Jetbrains vim plugin is largely pretty good.

kaba0 2y ago

Anyone claiming bullshit like 10x difference has absolutely no basis in reality. Hell, there wouldn’t be an order of magnitude difference between your best setup vs literally touch typing on a foreign keyboard layout. Also, neovim is just a text/code editor, not an IDE even with plugins.

sureglymop 2y ago

Do you have a link to your config?

leoh 2y ago

Folks shilling for the nvim cult completely baffle me. YES it’s cool and impressive, but it also means essentially spending hours and hours of time managing your configuration if you want anything remotely close ime to RustRover or any other JetBrains product. Spending that time can be interesting, but personally, frankly, I’d rather be writing code than fucking around with lua wrappers for vimscript. Let’s be honest about this stuff and stop putting down an incredible firm that makes incredible tools.

pquki4 2y ago

Need evidence of that 10x number. The bottleneck in programming is often how fast you can think, not how fast you can type or use auto completion, and definitely not some shortcuts. They cut down time but are not magic. Not to mention that different IDEs often have the same features, you just need to find them.

pjmlp 2y ago

As someone old enough to remember when VI was occasionally all caps, XEmacs was cool, no thanks.