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In 2020, I wanted to understand the issue better, so I followed all the links from my government website to any research regarding masks. My government had fir

In 2020, I wanted to understand the issue better, so I followed all the links from my government website to any research regarding masks. My government had first stated that wearing masks by the public was not effective and wearing them was actually very selfish and stupid, because masks were needed by the medical professionals. The marrative then took a 180 turn, and then same officials said that masks were effective and not wearing masks was selfish and stupid. They also admitted to lying about the effectiveness of masks before, claiming they wanted save masks for the medical professionals. The only research I could find through links from these government health policy organizations was a meta analysis on the European CDC website, stating that the evidence was inconclusive but masks should be worn anyway. The recommendation of the organization did not follow from their own research. So seeing that the policy had already been based on admitted lies about the research, and that even current research at the time by the organization itself could not support the recommendation, I had to come to a conclusion that mask recommendations were a very political issue. Then I went to read on the methdologies on how the effectiveness can is measured. The general scientific consensus before COVID appreared to be that using masks even by the surgeons did not reduce the risk of tramitting disaease from the surgeon to the patient, but still all surgeons thoughy that it was a good idea to use them. The narrative “at least it prevents droplets from reaching and infecting others” actually relies in the assumption that we know the transmission mechanism for the specific disease. We did not know it at the time for COVID, and I believe we still do not know it conclusively. Some research has been done on the effectiveness of masks on diseases that are transmitted via aerosols. The surprising finding was that although the mask catches the droplets, the mask does not ultimately keep them but the droplets are vaporized in the process, and many of them are turned into aerosols. So using masks actually may increase the transmission for disases that are transmitted through aerosolic particles.

layla5alive 2y ago
Respirators are effective down to 300nm - aerosolized viruses are larger than this, around 1uM and larger.
- amluto 2y ago
  > Respirators are effective down to 300nm Not exactly. For most filter media, ~300nm is the “most penetrating particle size”. The mask is more effective below that.
- kukkeliskuu 2y ago
  Most people were using masks that did not prevent aerosolic viruses. Government mandates did not require use of respirators in most countries. Furthermore, research I was mentioning found that while the droplets are blocked by the mask, some of them end up in the clothes, suggesting some droplets fall of the mask. There were some videos that showed the effect. I am not saying that respirators do not work. I am saying that public policy was not backed by science and in some cases scientific papers were published that appeared to be politically motivated, which caused pulic to lose trust in both the public health policy organizations and to some extent also in science.
triplesec 2y ago
Please note: 1. surgical masks are pretty ineffective, but N95 and better masks are very effective, subject to proper use and quality control 2. Mask research and experience pre-COVID in the West was not widely understood by non-experts even in the medical field. Which led to all sorts of doctors with huge egos getting onto Youtube and misinforming people with their poor grasp of science and studies. (Most doctors are not medical sceientists, but artisans). 3. Then look at the huge number of studies since 2020 and you will find that indeed when a study looks at the correct masks ued properly, they work as intended. the biggest problem is the meatsack using the masks, because most of them are not diligent or kind enough to use them. 4. We should allow scientists and medical practitioners to make a mistake, and own up to it to make 180 degree u-turns. This means ghey are using data and experience to update their beliefs, which is good science.
- kukkeliskuu 2y ago
  Yes, people do not follow instructions. Policies should take that into account, and not be vbsed on unscientific overly optimistic beliefs about human behavior. People would follow instructions better if they believed them to be based on facts. People were pressured to appear to follow instructions. That does not work well. I don’t criticize making mistakes. I am criticizing lying to the public and using social pressure to force people to follow policies that are known to be ineffective.

layla5alive 2y ago

Respirators are effective down to 300nm - aerosolized viruses are larger than this, around 1uM and larger.

amluto 2y ago
> Respirators are effective down to 300nm Not exactly. For most filter media, ~300nm is the “most penetrating particle size”. The mask is more effective below that.
kukkeliskuu 2y ago
Most people were using masks that did not prevent aerosolic viruses. Government mandates did not require use of respirators in most countries. Furthermore, research I was mentioning found that while the droplets are blocked by the mask, some of them end up in the clothes, suggesting some droplets fall of the mask. There were some videos that showed the effect. I am not saying that respirators do not work. I am saying that public policy was not backed by science and in some cases scientific papers were published that appeared to be politically motivated, which caused pulic to lose trust in both the public health policy organizations and to some extent also in science.

triplesec 2y ago

Please note: 1. surgical masks are pretty ineffective, but N95 and better masks are very effective, subject to proper use and quality control 2. Mask research and experience pre-COVID in the West was not widely understood by non-experts even in the medical field. Which led to all sorts of doctors with huge egos getting onto Youtube and misinforming people with their poor grasp of science and studies. (Most doctors are not medical sceientists, but artisans). 3. Then look at the huge number of studies since 2020 and you will find that indeed when a study looks at the correct masks ued properly, they work as intended. the biggest problem is the meatsack using the masks, because most of them are not diligent or kind enough to use them. 4. We should allow scientists and medical practitioners to make a mistake, and own up to it to make 180 degree u-turns. This means ghey are using data and experience to update their beliefs, which is good science.

kukkeliskuu 2y ago
Yes, people do not follow instructions. Policies should take that into account, and not be vbsed on unscientific overly optimistic beliefs about human behavior. People would follow instructions better if they believed them to be based on facts. People were pressured to appear to follow instructions. That does not work well. I don’t criticize making mistakes. I am criticizing lying to the public and using social pressure to force people to follow policies that are known to be ineffective.