4 ms·

I never knew about the 3-day limit before, it makes sense that this is the reason behind unverified ACATS transfers (a problem that I've spent no small amount o

I never knew about the 3-day limit before, it makes sense that this is the reason behind unverified ACATS transfers (a problem that I've spent no small amount of time arguing about on various online forums long ago). Interestingly, Fidelity lets you put your account into "lockdown" mode there they'll reject all ACATS (and ACH too I believe) transfers automatically without your intervention. I've always wondered what kind of legal magic they're pulling to make this compliant with FINRA rules. What eventually convinced me over that it's not a problem is, as Patrick says, that these institutions will with high likelihood make you whole for fraudulent transfers, the same way they will for fraudulent ACH. The financial system generally works.

vineyardmike 2y ago
> these institutions will with high likelihood make you whole for fraudulent transfers, the same way they will for fraudulent ACH. The financial system generally works. This applies to so much of the financial system, that it baffles me people worry about the things they do. I have family members that are so scared of card skimming they only pay in cash, and friends who are still too scared of the internet to buy things online.
- cesarb 2y ago
  > This applies to so much of the financial system, that it baffles me people worry about the things they do. That's easy to understand. For the "financial system", $1000 is nothing. For many people, $1000 means the difference between having something to eat or not. Even if you get your money back in the end, not having any money for several days can be a disaster; and the 1% chance that you might not get that back can be too much risk to bear. > I have family members that are so scared of card skimming they only pay in cash That's understandable. With cash, all you can lose is the cash you have in hand at that moment; if your card is skimmed and used without your permission, you can lose up to the card's limit (and perhaps even more, if the limit isn't strictly enforced). You might say that fraudulent transactions will be reversed, but there's always that 1% chance that the other side will somehow manage to convince your bank that the transactions were in fact legitimate. > and friends who are still too scared of the internet to buy things online. When you buy at a store, the goods you bought are in your physical possession at the moment of the payment. When you buy things online, the goods you bought show up days or even weeks later, if they do, and until they arrive, you have no idea whether they're actually what you bought (and that's on top of the "card skimming" risk). Sure, if you have enough resources, you can tolerate losing $1000 of the limit of one of your credit cards for a few days until the charge is reversed (and even, in the worst case, absorb the loss in case that charge isn't reversed), but not everyone can do that. And the perceived risk can be higher than the unknowable real risk; someone who has heard about (or experienced) enough incidents in which money was lost (temporarily or not) will understandably be more reluctant to expose themselves to these risks.
- _lvbh 2y ago
  I once had to starve for 2 days because my bank froze my card over the weekend and being in a new country, had no cash with me (the nearest exchange was too far away by foot) Nowadays I pretty much have the bare minimum in the bank and just spend cash.
  - skybrian 2y ago
    Having multiple, independent payment methods, of any sort, seems like the way to go.
- miki123211 2y ago
  For a lot of people, not having access to anything they currently have in their bank account, which is most of their savings, is actually a quite big deal, even if they can get that money back eventually.
- chiph 2y ago
  I regard this as dealing with differing amounts of annoyance. Fraudulent credit card charge? Pffft - it will get taken care of with maybe two phone calls. Fraudulent debit card charge that leaves me with $8.31 in the bank? Getting up there on the annoyance scale. I have cash to live on for a few days, but it will likely require several phone calls and some outstanding bill-pays may bounce[0]. Someone buying a car with my stolen identity? Hugely annoying. [0] I have a couple of monthly bills that cause a physical check to be printed and mailed. And one of the recipients only checks their mail twice a week so the float time is significant. I deal with them because I must.

vineyardmike 2y ago

> these institutions will with high likelihood make you whole for fraudulent transfers, the same way they will for fraudulent ACH. The financial system generally works. This applies to so much of the financial system, that it baffles me people worry about the things they do. I have family members that are so scared of card skimming they only pay in cash, and friends who are still too scared of the internet to buy things online.

cesarb 2y ago
> This applies to so much of the financial system, that it baffles me people worry about the things they do. That's easy to understand. For the "financial system", $1000 is nothing. For many people, $1000 means the difference between having something to eat or not. Even if you get your money back in the end, not having any money for several days can be a disaster; and the 1% chance that you might not get that back can be too much risk to bear. > I have family members that are so scared of card skimming they only pay in cash That's understandable. With cash, all you can lose is the cash you have in hand at that moment; if your card is skimmed and used without your permission, you can lose up to the card's limit (and perhaps even more, if the limit isn't strictly enforced). You might say that fraudulent transactions will be reversed, but there's always that 1% chance that the other side will somehow manage to convince your bank that the transactions were in fact legitimate. > and friends who are still too scared of the internet to buy things online. When you buy at a store, the goods you bought are in your physical possession at the moment of the payment. When you buy things online, the goods you bought show up days or even weeks later, if they do, and until they arrive, you have no idea whether they're actually what you bought (and that's on top of the "card skimming" risk). Sure, if you have enough resources, you can tolerate losing $1000 of the limit of one of your credit cards for a few days until the charge is reversed (and even, in the worst case, absorb the loss in case that charge isn't reversed), but not everyone can do that. And the perceived risk can be higher than the unknowable real risk; someone who has heard about (or experienced) enough incidents in which money was lost (temporarily or not) will understandably be more reluctant to expose themselves to these risks.
_lvbh 2y ago
I once had to starve for 2 days because my bank froze my card over the weekend and being in a new country, had no cash with me (the nearest exchange was too far away by foot) Nowadays I pretty much have the bare minimum in the bank and just spend cash.
- skybrian 2y ago
  Having multiple, independent payment methods, of any sort, seems like the way to go.
miki123211 2y ago
For a lot of people, not having access to anything they currently have in their bank account, which is most of their savings, is actually a quite big deal, even if they can get that money back eventually.
chiph 2y ago
I regard this as dealing with differing amounts of annoyance. Fraudulent credit card charge? Pffft - it will get taken care of with maybe two phone calls. Fraudulent debit card charge that leaves me with $8.31 in the bank? Getting up there on the annoyance scale. I have cash to live on for a few days, but it will likely require several phone calls and some outstanding bill-pays may bounce[0]. Someone buying a car with my stolen identity? Hugely annoying. [0] I have a couple of monthly bills that cause a physical check to be printed and mailed. And one of the recipients only checks their mail twice a week so the float time is significant. I deal with them because I must.