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Several innocent people die from being imprisoned every day. No one cares, because they die in the prison infirmary, but they're just as dead and they were kil

by anamax 2y ago

Several innocent people die from being imprisoned every day. No one cares, because they die in the prison infirmary, but they're just as dead and they were killed because of their conviction, just like they were executed. (No, I'm not talking about folks on death row, although innocents on death row also die in the infirmary.) Not only do we kill more innocents that way in absolute numbers, it's also greater in percentage numbers. (Death penalty cases get lots of review. We can argue about whether it's enough, but it's far more review than life without parole, not to mention lesser sentences which end up being life.)

andrewjf 2y ago
This kind of argument is exhausting. I don't know if there's a name for it or if there's some kind of "razor" for it, like; "Moving in any direction of bettering things is always going to be confronted by someone who thinks it's not good enough and there's some far bigger problem somewhere else so let me distract from the actual good that's trying to be done here" To the actual point - I do think there's a difference between inmates dying in prison for other reasons (and we should reduce those) vs. sentencing someone to execution for a crime they didn't commit.
- anamax 2y ago
  I didn't say anything about doing less or that your concerns were invalid. My point is that there's more "bang for the buck" wrt saving innocents from being dying due to wrongful "not death penalty" convictions, even if you discount "dying in the infirmary" quite a bit relative to "dying in the chair." I'm not saying that you shouldn't care about the death penalty. My comment is addressed to people who care about dying due to wrongful conviction.
  - 20after4 2y ago
    On top of that, all the people who die in policy custody before they are even convicted of a crime. Or before even being accused of a crime, simply because of trigger happy cops.
  - Nevermark 2y ago
    > My point is that there's more "bang for the buck" wrt saving innocents from being dying due to wrongful "not death penalty" convictions, even if you discount "dying in the infirmary" quite a bit relative to "dying in the chair." If the system doesn’t care when an innocent is actually sentenced to death and executed, why would it care if they die at all? I don’t think there is any predictable “bang for the buck”. If anything, more “bang” is achieved by shaming the system towards better justice wherever it will be most publicly noticed. Creating a halo for more change. The case’s dramatic factors are why people put up their own resources into fighting it, and why we are hearing about it. And why the challenge has any chance.
- latentsea 2y ago
  Whataboutism?
CreateAccount50 2y ago
Part of the issue is that the United States has 25% of the world's prison population and only 6% of Total population the world. When you are the jailingest country in the world per capita by a large margin - More than Russia, Saudi Arabia, iran - You got the question how flippantly we put people in a cage.
- datavirtue 2y ago
  What if all those other jurisdictions are doing it wrong? The US, in my opinion, is the only justice system with sane prison terms.
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    Judged by how effective they are right? At preventing crime and especially recidivism? We compare extremely well against our peer nations on these metrics, the ones who have much less "sane prison terms." Right?

by anamax 2y ago

andrewjf 2y ago

This kind of argument is exhausting. I don't know if there's a name for it or if there's some kind of "razor" for it, like; "Moving in any direction of bettering things is always going to be confronted by someone who thinks it's not good enough and there's some far bigger problem somewhere else so let me distract from the actual good that's trying to be done here" To the actual point - I do think there's a difference between inmates dying in prison for other reasons (and we should reduce those) vs. sentencing someone to execution for a crime they didn't commit.

anamax 2y ago
I didn't say anything about doing less or that your concerns were invalid. My point is that there's more "bang for the buck" wrt saving innocents from being dying due to wrongful "not death penalty" convictions, even if you discount "dying in the infirmary" quite a bit relative to "dying in the chair." I'm not saying that you shouldn't care about the death penalty. My comment is addressed to people who care about dying due to wrongful conviction.
- 20after4 2y ago
  On top of that, all the people who die in policy custody before they are even convicted of a crime. Or before even being accused of a crime, simply because of trigger happy cops.
- Nevermark 2y ago
  > My point is that there's more "bang for the buck" wrt saving innocents from being dying due to wrongful "not death penalty" convictions, even if you discount "dying in the infirmary" quite a bit relative to "dying in the chair." If the system doesn’t care when an innocent is actually sentenced to death and executed, why would it care if they die at all? I don’t think there is any predictable “bang for the buck”. If anything, more “bang” is achieved by shaming the system towards better justice wherever it will be most publicly noticed. Creating a halo for more change. The case’s dramatic factors are why people put up their own resources into fighting it, and why we are hearing about it. And why the challenge has any chance.
latentsea 2y ago
Whataboutism?

CreateAccount50 2y ago

Part of the issue is that the United States has 25% of the world's prison population and only 6% of Total population the world. When you are the jailingest country in the world per capita by a large margin - More than Russia, Saudi Arabia, iran - You got the question how flippantly we put people in a cage.

datavirtue 2y ago
What if all those other jurisdictions are doing it wrong? The US, in my opinion, is the only justice system with sane prison terms.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  Judged by how effective they are right? At preventing crime and especially recidivism? We compare extremely well against our peer nations on these metrics, the ones who have much less "sane prison terms." Right?