7 ms·

My workflow is 1. Buying used and reasonably priced original music CDs 2. Ripping them with EAC[1] and an external LG BH16NS55 to FLAC format (takes 120 secon

My workflow is 1. Buying used and reasonably priced original music CDs 2. Ripping them with EAC[1] and an external LG BH16NS55 to FLAC format (takes 120 seconds per CD - this drive is FAST and ACCURATE) 3. Auto-import the ripped FLACs into my beets.io database via cronjob (which also unifies the metadata automatically in 99% of the cases) 4. Inplace-convert the FLACs to 192kbps mp3 via `beet convert` 5. Archiving the converted perfectly tagged FLACs to Bluray discs, as soon as the archive size hits 25GB 6. Point a self-hosted Navidrome instance and a Windows VM with iTunes to the beets folder 7. Use Substreamer App with Navidrome's smart playlists[2] and "favoriting" on my Android phone / iPhone as well as iTunes syncing my iPod Nano 7 via smart playlists Works absolutely flawless and is less work than I expected. Since I automated everything possible, the only manual thing I need to do is the BUYING, the RIPPING and the Bluray ARCHIVING part. 1: https://pilabor.com/blog/2022/10/audio-cd-ripping-hardware/ https://pilabor.com/blog/2022/10/audio-cd-ripping-hardware/ 2: https://github.com/navidrome/navidrome/issues/1417 https://github.com/navidrome/navidrome/issues/1417

mmastrac 2y ago
> 5. Archiving the converted perfectly tagged FLACs to Bluray discs, as soon as the archive size hits 25GB Do you have a rec for any long-life BR discs?
- sandreas 2y ago
  I use regular Verbatim 25GB disks. Since I keep the original CDs and usually use the Mp3s to listen, this is only a part of my 3-2-1 backup strategy. Nothing meant to be 200 years archival proof :-) However, I never use anything but Verbatim, never had a bad experience with it.
  - accrual 2y ago
    Very cool archival setup! Funny you say that about Verbatim. I have a several old burned discs from the 2000s and 2010s where the dye has degraded and is no longer readable, but I have one specific blue Verbatim disc my childhood friend burned for me in the late 90s, and it still reads today!
    - sandreas 2y ago
      > and it still reads today! Exactly my experience. Verbatim is worth the additional cost in my opinion. I mainly do the archival as a hobby... not sure I ever gonna need it :-) However, I'm pretty scared of ransomware these days, so I tried to make my setup as ransomware proof as possible and zfs-auto-snapshot + self burned blurays with the most important data seemed like a good idea :-)
      - Jerrrrry 2y ago
        Verbatim is, was, has, and always will be, the gold standard.
- m463 2y ago
  Years ago I tried archiving to optical media and after a few short years, things were failing. Like all the things. I am of the opinion that (multiple) hard disks might be the most recoverable. I might be wrong.
  - sandreas 2y ago
    Na you don't. Of course I keep a HDD copy on my Backup-Server, I just mentioned the Bluray thing, because I try to keep my 24/7 System as clean as possible.
wwalexander 2y ago
With a setup this bespoke, why not transcode to Opus or AAC or MP3 VBR?
- maybe_pablo 2y ago
  I do something similar to OP but do the final transcoding to HE-AAC VBR 64kbps (ffmpeg params `-c:a aac_at -profile:a 4 -b:a 64k -aac_at_mode 2`). The tracks sound more than acceptable to me and this way I can easily store my entire collection (+80k tracks) into my iPhone. Modern codecs are wonderfully efficient.
  - sandreas 2y ago
    Thanks for sharing your params... This is nice, maybe that's something I should consider. I need to test wether my car supports aac. My ipod does and kitchen radio is not that important. You should See my audio books workflow with m4b-tool and audiobookshelf, which is probably even better ;) Did you know ffmpeg has a non free Encoder (libfdk_AAC) thats sounds slightly better?
    - maybe_pablo 2y ago
      No problem, please do share any interesting part of your workflow if you have the time! > Did you know ffmpeg has a non free Encoder (libfdk_AAC) thats sounds slightly better? Ah yes. I'm not sure it sounds better than the audiotoolbox encoder though, at least it is reported that it doesn't here: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Encode/AAC#aac_at https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Encode/AAC#aac_at although the hydrogenaudio source of this claim seems to be down, is still readable on the web archive at https://web.archive.org/web/20240407200855/https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Apple_AAC https://web.archive.org/web/20240407200855/https://wiki.hydr...
      - sandreas 2y ago
        I'm desperately trying to publish a blog article about this topic for half a year now :-) Maybe I'll never get it done, there is so much to cover... from - what I know about iPods - why modern Android Phones still can't compete in my opinion - why the Apple Earpods can't change volume on Android devices and vice versa (https://tinymicros.com/wiki/Apple_iPod_Remote_Protocol https://tinymicros.com/wiki/Apple_iPod_Remote_Protocol) - how you can harvest Earpods remote to create a durable good sounding headset using the right pinout - that OneMore seems to have implemented the Apple Remote Protocol without anyone noticing - why I wrote my own command line cross platform audio tagger (https://github.com/sandreas/tone https://github.com/sandreas/tone) - why I self-host my audio stuff - and why nobody seems to care about an audio everything solution (music, audio books, podcasts, etc.) So, let's hope I'll find the time :-)
gpspake 2y ago
Why bother with MP3s in this day and age? I have a whole little flowchart like this too but one thing I'll mention is that I use cueripper with eac as a fallback. When I end up using EAC I run the result through cuetools to get the verification log and store it with the original rip in a sort of source directory. Then I split the single cue file to individual flac tracks (I convert them from wave if I had to use EAC) and tag them all/add images etc. the final destination is media monkey and an iPod running Rock box. I keep a spreadsheet with every CD and the rip results and whether metadata has been applied and whether it's been moved over to the iPod.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- sandreas 2y ago
  Great choice... I use Mp3 because its pretty much the works for everything format. Works on USB-Sticks for my car, the old Radio in the Kitchen, etc. CueRipper looks nice, maybe I'll evaluate, but for now my workflow is totally fine. The good part is, that if I one day choose to get rid of the MP3s, all I have to do is reimport my FLAC archive (of course I have a Hardisk-Version of the Bluray backup) and I'm done. With `beet convert` I can choose every other compressed format or quality and just need to wait a few hours to "recompile" my whole collection.
- Moru 2y ago
  I use MP3 because it works on just about everything I own. Nothing is more annoying than when you have nicely prepared a USB stick with travel music and in the car nothing works and the computer is 500 km away. This is why most people bother with MP3 still, we don't care that there is something more recent. Or rather, we do care but have no use for it yet. Not always is the new thing better than the old for your use case.
- jim180 2y ago
  Many moons ago I decided to rip everything to AAC, until one day I brought cd full of mp4 files to my dad’s car…and realized that none of them could be played. After that, it’s just mp3 (and flac)
karmakaze 2y ago
I would use 320kbps mp3s. At this point the space savings from 192kbps isn't worth anything and it's one of those things you wish you'd thought through so you won't have to do these steps again.
- russelg 2y ago
  Or V0 is acceptable as well. 192 is crazy...
  - sandreas 2y ago
    I'm not an audiophile. For me 192kbps is good enough at the time, but I get your Point. Space should not be a problem these days and why not go as good as possible. Maybe I'll change that in the future. Like I described above I keep the FLAC Archive on a Harddisk, so if any day I decide to change my library format (e.g. to AAC to use FLAC), it is like one rsync, one import and one convert.
  - globular-toast 2y ago
    Always use V0. 192 is not good enough for many things, 320 is a waste of space.
    - sandreas 2y ago
      I'm gonna consider this for the future, thank you
- Projectiboga 2y ago
  I saw a study once, and it found 224kbps LAME mp3 worked for all types of music. So that is what I've always done.
glitchc 2y ago
What about the metadata? Do you listen to whole CDs at a time? I find that adding the tags for each song takes more time than all of the other steps you mentioned. Of course I use Mp3tag for that, but still, would be nice to auto populate somehow.
- Pxtl 2y ago
  What metadata do you mean? Like the regular ID3 tags? Most tools so a decent job finding those on online DBs. I use musicbrainz Picard personally.
  - glitchc 2y ago
    Track titles, contributing artists, year of issue, genre(s), that sort of data. Once filled in, say in EAC, it carries over mostly to other tools.
    - sandreas 2y ago
      beets corrects all the metadata in a very automagic and decent way. If you never tried, it's open source software and totally free. It takes some time to configure and get used to, but it is worth it.
- sandreas 2y ago
  EAC (Exact Audio Copy) has a Metadata provider, which matches the audio CDs and pulls data from different sources. That said, beet (beets.io) is much more convinient / accurate / easy to use and once it is configured properly. EAC has partly inserted the most important metadata stuff (artist, album, etc.) after ripping. So I use a cronjob, that runs `beet import` with "ignore if no match is found", that fully automates the process of embedding the metadata (also cover, lyrics and so on). Works really well and I don't need to perform ONE mnaual step. Although Mp3Tag is a great tool (and I mean really great), doing all the tagging manually costs just too much time.
at_a_remove 2y ago
Thank you for this. I am trying to figure out what it is I want to do with my collection. EAC doesn't seem like it would have anything set up for an autoloader like the Nimbie, but dbpoweramp does; on the other hand, the major music-sharing groups seem to prefer EAC. Sadly, there's nothing out there that will be relatively accurate and precise when it comes to extracting beats per minute, key, and the nebulous "energy" characteristics. I would love to have those. I think I will also have to work to do things like pushing lyrics and artwork into the FLACs, seeing what metadata "makes it" in the re-encoding to something like a 320kbps MP3.
- sandreas 2y ago
  I use EAC, because I made this choice a while ago, but there are some other tools around, that can even better automate the process of ripping to flac. Speaking of metadata: Beets does this pretty well. You should try it, even if it takes a few hours to get used to it. There are a few good youtube tutorials.
  - at_a_remove 2y ago
    Part of the consideration is that I would eventually like to get into the music sharing scene (I have fought this for a very very long time) and there's considerations of which tools and which source of metadata complicating my decisions. Which is the "preferred" among which group? Beets sounds like it should be part of the mix, but so does MusicBrainz Picard.
- dajonker 2y ago
  Have you tried "Mixed in Key" for detection of BPM and key? I used this a long time ago for EDM and for that it works great. I don't know if it works reasonably well for other genres.
toastedwedge 2y ago
How did you get EAC working exactly? I tried to use it on numerous occasions and each time it would randomly freeze or repeatedly show a dialog box (I forget what it was now, something about tips maybe) until I closed the software. Even while I did nothing the boxes kept appearing. This would cause it to overlay itself endlessly in a loop.
- sandreas 2y ago
  There is a pretty good tutorial linked in my article: https://captainrookie.com/how-to-setup-exact-audio-copy-for-flac-ripping/ https://captainrookie.com/how-to-setup-exact-audio-copy-for-...
  - toastedwedge 2y ago
    My apologies, I misspoke. It's the program itself that, without my intervention, will go haywire, regardless of whether I've followed a guide or started from scratch. I seem to be the only one with this particular problem, so I never knew how to fix it.
    - sandreas 2y ago
      I'd recommend to setup a fresh Windows 10 VM, install all the available upgrades, create a snapshot and then follow the linked guide. The Optical Drive can be passed through to the VM. If you still get errors, it's probably a hardware issue.
- justin66 2y ago
  I've been using EAC over 20 years and have never seen anything like what you're seeing. (that said, I might be on a pretty old version, I'm not sure) Try to reinstall it and make sure you do not select the GD3 plugin on installation. It's the only option I'm aware of that might come with a nagware type dialog box.

mmastrac 2y ago

> 5. Archiving the converted perfectly tagged FLACs to Bluray discs, as soon as the archive size hits 25GB Do you have a rec for any long-life BR discs?

sandreas 2y ago
I use regular Verbatim 25GB disks. Since I keep the original CDs and usually use the Mp3s to listen, this is only a part of my 3-2-1 backup strategy. Nothing meant to be 200 years archival proof :-) However, I never use anything but Verbatim, never had a bad experience with it.
- accrual 2y ago
  Very cool archival setup! Funny you say that about Verbatim. I have a several old burned discs from the 2000s and 2010s where the dye has degraded and is no longer readable, but I have one specific blue Verbatim disc my childhood friend burned for me in the late 90s, and it still reads today!
  - sandreas 2y ago
    > and it still reads today! Exactly my experience. Verbatim is worth the additional cost in my opinion. I mainly do the archival as a hobby... not sure I ever gonna need it :-) However, I'm pretty scared of ransomware these days, so I tried to make my setup as ransomware proof as possible and zfs-auto-snapshot + self burned blurays with the most important data seemed like a good idea :-)
    - Jerrrrry 2y ago
      Verbatim is, was, has, and always will be, the gold standard.
m463 2y ago
Years ago I tried archiving to optical media and after a few short years, things were failing. Like all the things. I am of the opinion that (multiple) hard disks might be the most recoverable. I might be wrong.
- sandreas 2y ago
  Na you don't. Of course I keep a HDD copy on my Backup-Server, I just mentioned the Bluray thing, because I try to keep my 24/7 System as clean as possible.

wwalexander 2y ago

With a setup this bespoke, why not transcode to Opus or AAC or MP3 VBR?

maybe_pablo 2y ago
I do something similar to OP but do the final transcoding to HE-AAC VBR 64kbps (ffmpeg params `-c:a aac_at -profile:a 4 -b:a 64k -aac_at_mode 2`). The tracks sound more than acceptable to me and this way I can easily store my entire collection (+80k tracks) into my iPhone. Modern codecs are wonderfully efficient.
- sandreas 2y ago
  Thanks for sharing your params... This is nice, maybe that's something I should consider. I need to test wether my car supports aac. My ipod does and kitchen radio is not that important. You should See my audio books workflow with m4b-tool and audiobookshelf, which is probably even better ;) Did you know ffmpeg has a non free Encoder (libfdk_AAC) thats sounds slightly better?
  - maybe_pablo 2y ago
    No problem, please do share any interesting part of your workflow if you have the time! > Did you know ffmpeg has a non free Encoder (libfdk_AAC) thats sounds slightly better? Ah yes. I'm not sure it sounds better than the audiotoolbox encoder though, at least it is reported that it doesn't here: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Encode/AAC#aac_at https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Encode/AAC#aac_at although the hydrogenaudio source of this claim seems to be down, is still readable on the web archive at https://web.archive.org/web/20240407200855/https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Apple_AAC https://web.archive.org/web/20240407200855/https://wiki.hydr...
    - sandreas 2y ago
      I'm desperately trying to publish a blog article about this topic for half a year now :-) Maybe I'll never get it done, there is so much to cover... from - what I know about iPods - why modern Android Phones still can't compete in my opinion - why the Apple Earpods can't change volume on Android devices and vice versa (https://tinymicros.com/wiki/Apple_iPod_Remote_Protocol https://tinymicros.com/wiki/Apple_iPod_Remote_Protocol) - how you can harvest Earpods remote to create a durable good sounding headset using the right pinout - that OneMore seems to have implemented the Apple Remote Protocol without anyone noticing - why I wrote my own command line cross platform audio tagger (https://github.com/sandreas/tone https://github.com/sandreas/tone) - why I self-host my audio stuff - and why nobody seems to care about an audio everything solution (music, audio books, podcasts, etc.) So, let's hope I'll find the time :-)

gpspake 2y ago

Why bother with MP3s in this day and age? I have a whole little flowchart like this too but one thing I'll mention is that I use cueripper with eac as a fallback. When I end up using EAC I run the result through cuetools to get the verification log and store it with the original rip in a sort of source directory. Then I split the single cue file to individual flac tracks (I convert them from wave if I had to use EAC) and tag them all/add images etc. the final destination is media monkey and an iPod running Rock box. I keep a spreadsheet with every CD and the rip results and whether metadata has been applied and whether it's been moved over to the iPod.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
sandreas 2y ago
Great choice... I use Mp3 because its pretty much the works for everything format. Works on USB-Sticks for my car, the old Radio in the Kitchen, etc. CueRipper looks nice, maybe I'll evaluate, but for now my workflow is totally fine. The good part is, that if I one day choose to get rid of the MP3s, all I have to do is reimport my FLAC archive (of course I have a Hardisk-Version of the Bluray backup) and I'm done. With `beet convert` I can choose every other compressed format or quality and just need to wait a few hours to "recompile" my whole collection.
Moru 2y ago
I use MP3 because it works on just about everything I own. Nothing is more annoying than when you have nicely prepared a USB stick with travel music and in the car nothing works and the computer is 500 km away. This is why most people bother with MP3 still, we don't care that there is something more recent. Or rather, we do care but have no use for it yet. Not always is the new thing better than the old for your use case.
jim180 2y ago
Many moons ago I decided to rip everything to AAC, until one day I brought cd full of mp4 files to my dad’s car…and realized that none of them could be played. After that, it’s just mp3 (and flac)

karmakaze 2y ago

I would use 320kbps mp3s. At this point the space savings from 192kbps isn't worth anything and it's one of those things you wish you'd thought through so you won't have to do these steps again.

russelg 2y ago
Or V0 is acceptable as well. 192 is crazy...
- sandreas 2y ago
  I'm not an audiophile. For me 192kbps is good enough at the time, but I get your Point. Space should not be a problem these days and why not go as good as possible. Maybe I'll change that in the future. Like I described above I keep the FLAC Archive on a Harddisk, so if any day I decide to change my library format (e.g. to AAC to use FLAC), it is like one rsync, one import and one convert.
- globular-toast 2y ago
  Always use V0. 192 is not good enough for many things, 320 is a waste of space.
  - sandreas 2y ago
    I'm gonna consider this for the future, thank you
Projectiboga 2y ago
I saw a study once, and it found 224kbps LAME mp3 worked for all types of music. So that is what I've always done.

glitchc 2y ago

What about the metadata? Do you listen to whole CDs at a time? I find that adding the tags for each song takes more time than all of the other steps you mentioned. Of course I use Mp3tag for that, but still, would be nice to auto populate somehow.

Pxtl 2y ago
What metadata do you mean? Like the regular ID3 tags? Most tools so a decent job finding those on online DBs. I use musicbrainz Picard personally.
- glitchc 2y ago
  Track titles, contributing artists, year of issue, genre(s), that sort of data. Once filled in, say in EAC, it carries over mostly to other tools.
  - sandreas 2y ago
    beets corrects all the metadata in a very automagic and decent way. If you never tried, it's open source software and totally free. It takes some time to configure and get used to, but it is worth it.
sandreas 2y ago
EAC (Exact Audio Copy) has a Metadata provider, which matches the audio CDs and pulls data from different sources. That said, beet (beets.io) is much more convinient / accurate / easy to use and once it is configured properly. EAC has partly inserted the most important metadata stuff (artist, album, etc.) after ripping. So I use a cronjob, that runs `beet import` with "ignore if no match is found", that fully automates the process of embedding the metadata (also cover, lyrics and so on). Works really well and I don't need to perform ONE mnaual step. Although Mp3Tag is a great tool (and I mean really great), doing all the tagging manually costs just too much time.

at_a_remove 2y ago

Thank you for this. I am trying to figure out what it is I want to do with my collection. EAC doesn't seem like it would have anything set up for an autoloader like the Nimbie, but dbpoweramp does; on the other hand, the major music-sharing groups seem to prefer EAC. Sadly, there's nothing out there that will be relatively accurate and precise when it comes to extracting beats per minute, key, and the nebulous "energy" characteristics. I would love to have those. I think I will also have to work to do things like pushing lyrics and artwork into the FLACs, seeing what metadata "makes it" in the re-encoding to something like a 320kbps MP3.

sandreas 2y ago
I use EAC, because I made this choice a while ago, but there are some other tools around, that can even better automate the process of ripping to flac. Speaking of metadata: Beets does this pretty well. You should try it, even if it takes a few hours to get used to it. There are a few good youtube tutorials.
- at_a_remove 2y ago
  Part of the consideration is that I would eventually like to get into the music sharing scene (I have fought this for a very very long time) and there's considerations of which tools and which source of metadata complicating my decisions. Which is the "preferred" among which group? Beets sounds like it should be part of the mix, but so does MusicBrainz Picard.
dajonker 2y ago
Have you tried "Mixed in Key" for detection of BPM and key? I used this a long time ago for EDM and for that it works great. I don't know if it works reasonably well for other genres.

toastedwedge 2y ago

How did you get EAC working exactly? I tried to use it on numerous occasions and each time it would randomly freeze or repeatedly show a dialog box (I forget what it was now, something about tips maybe) until I closed the software. Even while I did nothing the boxes kept appearing. This would cause it to overlay itself endlessly in a loop.

sandreas 2y ago
There is a pretty good tutorial linked in my article: https://captainrookie.com/how-to-setup-exact-audio-copy-for-flac-ripping/ https://captainrookie.com/how-to-setup-exact-audio-copy-for-...
- toastedwedge 2y ago
  My apologies, I misspoke. It's the program itself that, without my intervention, will go haywire, regardless of whether I've followed a guide or started from scratch. I seem to be the only one with this particular problem, so I never knew how to fix it.
  - sandreas 2y ago
    I'd recommend to setup a fresh Windows 10 VM, install all the available upgrades, create a snapshot and then follow the linked guide. The Optical Drive can be passed through to the VM. If you still get errors, it's probably a hardware issue.
justin66 2y ago
I've been using EAC over 20 years and have never seen anything like what you're seeing. (that said, I might be on a pretty old version, I'm not sure) Try to reinstall it and make sure you do not select the GD3 plugin on installation. It's the only option I'm aware of that might come with a nagware type dialog box.