5 ms·

Ozempic? Or just eating less?

by neverokay 2y ago

Rinzler89 2y ago
[flagged]
- artninja1988 2y ago
  Doesn't ozempic just make you feel full more easily and help you eat less?
  - mensetmanusman 2y ago
    ‘Just’ is doing a lot here.
  - nullserver 2y ago
    That’s my experience. Eating one slice of pizza feels like eating the entire pizza normally would.
  - schwartzworld 2y ago
    Tbh, it changes your whole digestion and relationship with food.
eganist 2y ago
Probably the latter, but "just eating less" is next to impossible for a non-trivial minority of people much the way "just stopping heroin" would be for someone battling addiction. An aid to help clear the noise in the brain seems to be unsurprisingly useful, then, in achieving these outcomes.
- chatmasta 2y ago
  Sure, but Ozempic is not the only drug that suppresses appetite. So if the underlying benefits are from “just eating less,” then the study should also examine the effects of other pharmaceutical interventions that suppress appetite.
  - eganist 2y ago
    Funding tends to be a constraint with larger studies, and it's best to keep studies focused anyway — less confounding variables. Here, I'll pontificate a bit. For instance, study 1 finds that Ozempic is associated with a reduced risk of X. Study 2 is now funded to see if the association can be experimentally reproduced to establish a causative relationship. Competing institution gets Study 3 funded to test competing drug Mounjaro, reaches same conclusion. Study 4 by another institution finds same conclusion with a drug that acts in an entirely different manner, Buproprion. Study 5 by yet another institution finds similar results with amphetamines. Study 6 is funded on the premise that there's an underlying mechanism that needs to be explored, gets funding to study caloric restriction, gets similar results. Meanwhile, study 2 finds a causative relationship between Ozempic and X, concluding experimentally that Ozempic achieves X by inducing calorie restriction, which concurs with study 6. I'm oversimplifying. But you see where I'm going with this. Much easier to both control and fund the smaller studies than a giant one, and you develop more knowledge in the process. --- Also, I'm not an academic, so I could be wildly off base. Would appreciate a gut check by someone who actually does this for a living.
  - MrPoush 2y ago
    It's not the only drug that suppresses appetite, but GLP-1 agonists (Ozempic, Zepbound, etc) appear to work for a larger percentage of the population, and significantly outperform previous appetite suppressants. There's also findings that suggest that it goes beyond simply suppressing appetite, but also manipulates the "reward" center in the brain. Individuals who take it to lose weight find that they have reduced desire to drink or smoke, suggesting it's less that they struggle with appetite and more the medicine helps overcome addictive behavior.
    - andrewinardeer 2y ago
      Nicotine suppresses appetite as well and that has been used by humans for thousands of years.
      - raydev 2y ago
        Sure, it's just not as good as Ozempic at doing that particular job.
- globular-toast 2y ago
  Just to hammer the point home, imagine suggesting a cure for heroin addiction is to amputate the arms so they can't shoot up. Then look up what gastric bypass surgery is. For some reason we don't take food addiction seriously at all. You can't walk anywhere without seeing a picture of a Big Muck or something. Heroin addicts don't have to see their vice everywhere they go. Even cigarette addicts don't.
- FooBarBizBazz 2y ago
  "Just eating less" may be very difficult, psychologically, in the context of an otherwise stressful and distracting life. However, I find that if you are able to eliminate those issues and focus on your own health and diet -- a big "if", I will grant -- then it's actually not that hard, on its own. You get used to it.
  - eganist 2y ago
    That GLP-1 agonists are as successful as they are and appear to modulate the reward center of the brain (per the latest research on the same class of drugs and smoking/alcohol cessation) suggests that it's certainly not just a psychological matter. That's why I made the heroin comparison. People underappreciate the addictive properties of refined sugars. Edit: people also looked at the opiate angle too, apparently. https://pennstatehealthnews.org/2024/04/qa-can-weight-loss-drugs-help-in-addiction-treatment/ https://pennstatehealthnews.org/2024/04/qa-can-weight-loss-d...
pedalpete 2y ago
It would be interesting to see a comparative study of glp1 agitators to intermittent fasting. It surprises me that people will spend huge amounts on a drug which makes them feel less full, rather than have the tiny amount of willpower it takes to just not eat.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  Don't be so fast to assume that your willpower isn't just from genetic luck. You might as well be surprised some people are short. I mean, look how much better your life is as someone tall. We humans are very quick to assume our positive traits and outcomes come from conscious decisions to make things that way. It's why every successful person has a book about how they chose to become successful. They just worked hard. It's something we want to believe rather than admit anything came down to luck of the draw.
  - reacharavindh 2y ago
    You’re right in your argument about “just do this” suggestions without considering how hard it can be based on intrinsic factors. I feel there is a point in the thread you’re commenting on though. It would be scientifically interesting to know whether the desired(positive) outcomes of this drug can be replicated by consciously controlling the quantity or quality of food without the use of the drug(by those who can). Still, presenting the result in a useful way rather than stating the drug is useless. If you had a way to get the same results without any pharmaceutical intervention, and you’re a lucky one that _can_ do it, wouldn’t you want to know how?
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      It has been tested, Ozempic wins. These drugs are usually tested specifically on people who have tried and failed dieting and exercise interventions. I doubt any doctor is prescribing this without first asking, “have you tried diet and exercise?” The side effects can be pretty gnarly for some people and it’s very expensive and hard to obtain.
  - 2y ago
nullserver 2y ago
My wife takes full dose. Shes lost 60 pounds in six months. I have been taking the smallest dose. Normally i can eat a full meal, and be hungrier at the end of it, then when i started. For a couple of days after taking the small dose. I get full after a small amount. Then feel full for most of the day. I need to go up to a higher dose as this effect fades before next dose.
- GeoAtreides 2y ago
  > Normally i can eat a full meal, and be hungrier at the end of it, then when i started. how?! what exactly are you eating that's making you feel hungrier, not full?
  - phonon 2y ago
    https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+food+makes+you+hungry https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+food+makes+you+hungr...

Ozempic? Or just eating less?

Rinzler89 2y ago

[flagged]

artninja1988 2y ago
Doesn't ozempic just make you feel full more easily and help you eat less?
- mensetmanusman 2y ago
  ‘Just’ is doing a lot here.
- nullserver 2y ago
  That’s my experience. Eating one slice of pizza feels like eating the entire pizza normally would.
- schwartzworld 2y ago
  Tbh, it changes your whole digestion and relationship with food.

eganist 2y ago

Probably the latter, but "just eating less" is next to impossible for a non-trivial minority of people much the way "just stopping heroin" would be for someone battling addiction. An aid to help clear the noise in the brain seems to be unsurprisingly useful, then, in achieving these outcomes.

chatmasta 2y ago
Sure, but Ozempic is not the only drug that suppresses appetite. So if the underlying benefits are from “just eating less,” then the study should also examine the effects of other pharmaceutical interventions that suppress appetite.
- eganist 2y ago
  Funding tends to be a constraint with larger studies, and it's best to keep studies focused anyway — less confounding variables. Here, I'll pontificate a bit. For instance, study 1 finds that Ozempic is associated with a reduced risk of X. Study 2 is now funded to see if the association can be experimentally reproduced to establish a causative relationship. Competing institution gets Study 3 funded to test competing drug Mounjaro, reaches same conclusion. Study 4 by another institution finds same conclusion with a drug that acts in an entirely different manner, Buproprion. Study 5 by yet another institution finds similar results with amphetamines. Study 6 is funded on the premise that there's an underlying mechanism that needs to be explored, gets funding to study caloric restriction, gets similar results. Meanwhile, study 2 finds a causative relationship between Ozempic and X, concluding experimentally that Ozempic achieves X by inducing calorie restriction, which concurs with study 6. I'm oversimplifying. But you see where I'm going with this. Much easier to both control and fund the smaller studies than a giant one, and you develop more knowledge in the process. --- Also, I'm not an academic, so I could be wildly off base. Would appreciate a gut check by someone who actually does this for a living.
- MrPoush 2y ago
  It's not the only drug that suppresses appetite, but GLP-1 agonists (Ozempic, Zepbound, etc) appear to work for a larger percentage of the population, and significantly outperform previous appetite suppressants. There's also findings that suggest that it goes beyond simply suppressing appetite, but also manipulates the "reward" center in the brain. Individuals who take it to lose weight find that they have reduced desire to drink or smoke, suggesting it's less that they struggle with appetite and more the medicine helps overcome addictive behavior.
  - andrewinardeer 2y ago
    Nicotine suppresses appetite as well and that has been used by humans for thousands of years.
    - raydev 2y ago
      Sure, it's just not as good as Ozempic at doing that particular job.
globular-toast 2y ago
Just to hammer the point home, imagine suggesting a cure for heroin addiction is to amputate the arms so they can't shoot up. Then look up what gastric bypass surgery is. For some reason we don't take food addiction seriously at all. You can't walk anywhere without seeing a picture of a Big Muck or something. Heroin addicts don't have to see their vice everywhere they go. Even cigarette addicts don't.
FooBarBizBazz 2y ago
"Just eating less" may be very difficult, psychologically, in the context of an otherwise stressful and distracting life. However, I find that if you are able to eliminate those issues and focus on your own health and diet -- a big "if", I will grant -- then it's actually not that hard, on its own. You get used to it.
- eganist 2y ago
  That GLP-1 agonists are as successful as they are and appear to modulate the reward center of the brain (per the latest research on the same class of drugs and smoking/alcohol cessation) suggests that it's certainly not just a psychological matter. That's why I made the heroin comparison. People underappreciate the addictive properties of refined sugars. Edit: people also looked at the opiate angle too, apparently. https://pennstatehealthnews.org/2024/04/qa-can-weight-loss-drugs-help-in-addiction-treatment/ https://pennstatehealthnews.org/2024/04/qa-can-weight-loss-d...

pedalpete 2y ago

It would be interesting to see a comparative study of glp1 agitators to intermittent fasting. It surprises me that people will spend huge amounts on a drug which makes them feel less full, rather than have the tiny amount of willpower it takes to just not eat.

hombre_fatal 2y ago
Don't be so fast to assume that your willpower isn't just from genetic luck. You might as well be surprised some people are short. I mean, look how much better your life is as someone tall. We humans are very quick to assume our positive traits and outcomes come from conscious decisions to make things that way. It's why every successful person has a book about how they chose to become successful. They just worked hard. It's something we want to believe rather than admit anything came down to luck of the draw.
- reacharavindh 2y ago
  You’re right in your argument about “just do this” suggestions without considering how hard it can be based on intrinsic factors. I feel there is a point in the thread you’re commenting on though. It would be scientifically interesting to know whether the desired(positive) outcomes of this drug can be replicated by consciously controlling the quantity or quality of food without the use of the drug(by those who can). Still, presenting the result in a useful way rather than stating the drug is useless. If you had a way to get the same results without any pharmaceutical intervention, and you’re a lucky one that _can_ do it, wouldn’t you want to know how?
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    It has been tested, Ozempic wins. These drugs are usually tested specifically on people who have tried and failed dieting and exercise interventions. I doubt any doctor is prescribing this without first asking, “have you tried diet and exercise?” The side effects can be pretty gnarly for some people and it’s very expensive and hard to obtain.
- 2y ago

nullserver 2y ago

My wife takes full dose. Shes lost 60 pounds in six months. I have been taking the smallest dose. Normally i can eat a full meal, and be hungrier at the end of it, then when i started. For a couple of days after taking the small dose. I get full after a small amount. Then feel full for most of the day. I need to go up to a higher dose as this effect fades before next dose.

GeoAtreides 2y ago
> Normally i can eat a full meal, and be hungrier at the end of it, then when i started. how?! what exactly are you eating that's making you feel hungrier, not full?
- phonon 2y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+food+makes+you+hungry https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+food+makes+you+hungr...