5 ms·

Not surprising, given the awkward position the product was in, targeting customers who don’t already have CarPlay or Android Auto (lower end of the market), but

by rhplus 2y ago

Not surprising, given the awkward position the product was in, targeting customers who don’t already have CarPlay or Android Auto (lower end of the market), but are also willing to pay for Spotify Premium and a good smartphone data plan (higher end of the market).

infecto 2y ago
I think its less about high-end/low-end, after all carplay did not hit Toyota until around 2018. Its simply that you still need a phone to use the device, might as well connect your phone to your cars audio and use your phones screen.
- raverbashing 2y ago
  But the real question is why brick it? What requires so much maintenance?
  - jasonjayr 2y ago
    A wild guess? Maybe enhanced DRM so the audio path can't be MITM'd, and the digital audio data captured?
  - sbarre 2y ago
    Not that it's an acceptable reason, but could they be paying some kind of ongoing license for a codec or some other licensed software on the thing?
  - rhplus 2y ago
    DevOps, monitoring, support costs, ongoing security burden. You can’t just ship a device specific API anymore and call it done. Those services will have at least monthly security updates, plus all the shimming and API back-compact work that has to be done as the backend Spotify services change.
    - raverbashing 2y ago
      I understand, at the same time the api shouldn't be too different to what is used by other devices (otherwise they would be just shooting themselves in the foot)
- rhplus 2y ago
  That’s the crux of it. Someone already paying for Spotify and practically any smartphone can just buy a car mount and get pretty much the same experience. My high/low comment missed the mark. Someone in that position (without CarPlay) is more likely buy a $20 mount for their phone than a $100 one-trick pony device.
Aaargh20318 2y ago
This seems like a very US-centric view or the world. If you make a decent amount of money you have to spend it on a car? Lots of people don’t care about cars and/or don’t spend a enough time in them to justify spending a lot on it.
- bmelton 2y ago
  What a weird critique. American or not, if you don't have a car you're probably not in the target market for a CarThing I purchased mine without any intent on using it in a car, and in fact I never did, but it was clear that I was engaging in out-of-bounds behavior in doing so.
  - Macha 2y ago
    The American assumption is that cars are purchased new, and are recent enough to have integrated android auto/carplay.
    - bmelton 2y ago
      Or it means that the people who can afford fast phones and expensive internet are capable of buying a $300 car stereo with AA/CP capability. My 2001 Jeep Wrangler has both
      - yareal 2y ago
        My phone plan costs $14/month and could power music indefinitely at high speeds. Notably, it's something I already have and already pay for. $300 more for a new stereo is still a lot to many people. Plus, if I buy beater cars but put a nice stereo in them I'm at risk of theft. And I have to pay install fees again if I buy my next beater.
        bmelton 2y ago
        This just further illustrates OP's point, of how very limited this market segment must be The buyers of this product are people who: - spend enough time in their car to want streaming audio - spend money on phone and internet - have a desire to improve their car to have streaming audio - but not enough to replace the car - and also not enough to replace the stereo - but definitely enough to pay money to add it - and are willing to remove the item they are paying for every time they leave the car to prevent its attractiveness to thieves
Normal_gaussian 2y ago
This is somewhat out of touch. Even a cheap car car costs £1000's up front (or £100's/mo financed), with recurring > £100 a month in insurances, fuel, and repairs. A spotify subscription costs £12/mo, and a family plan £20/mo. A more than good enough data plan is £10/mo. A more than good enough smartphone is £100. The vast majority of older car owners can easily afford a Spotify subscription.
Macha 2y ago
I guess the US has more of a culture of buying new cars but here in Ireland, basically everyone I know has some form of unlimited data and no one has a car from the last two years. Our new car sales are about 120,000/yr compared to a licensed vehicle count of 2,800,000, which implies that most cars get driven for 20 years before being retired, which from the distribution of cars I see on the road seems entirely plausible. Our registration plates have the year of first licensing printed prominently on them, and there are many 2008 cars still on the road. In short, the top ~10% might have modern cars. The top ~90% have unlimited data or data where the limits will not be reached by playing Spotify. I could see someone going "Hmm, that's 80% of the market we could sell this too".

by rhplus 2y ago

infecto 2y ago

I think its less about high-end/low-end, after all carplay did not hit Toyota until around 2018. Its simply that you still need a phone to use the device, might as well connect your phone to your cars audio and use your phones screen.

raverbashing 2y ago
But the real question is why brick it? What requires so much maintenance?
- jasonjayr 2y ago
  A wild guess? Maybe enhanced DRM so the audio path can't be MITM'd, and the digital audio data captured?
- sbarre 2y ago
  Not that it's an acceptable reason, but could they be paying some kind of ongoing license for a codec or some other licensed software on the thing?
- rhplus 2y ago
  DevOps, monitoring, support costs, ongoing security burden. You can’t just ship a device specific API anymore and call it done. Those services will have at least monthly security updates, plus all the shimming and API back-compact work that has to be done as the backend Spotify services change.
  - raverbashing 2y ago
    I understand, at the same time the api shouldn't be too different to what is used by other devices (otherwise they would be just shooting themselves in the foot)
rhplus 2y ago
That’s the crux of it. Someone already paying for Spotify and practically any smartphone can just buy a car mount and get pretty much the same experience. My high/low comment missed the mark. Someone in that position (without CarPlay) is more likely buy a $20 mount for their phone than a $100 one-trick pony device.

Aaargh20318 2y ago

This seems like a very US-centric view or the world. If you make a decent amount of money you have to spend it on a car? Lots of people don’t care about cars and/or don’t spend a enough time in them to justify spending a lot on it.

bmelton 2y ago
What a weird critique. American or not, if you don't have a car you're probably not in the target market for a CarThing I purchased mine without any intent on using it in a car, and in fact I never did, but it was clear that I was engaging in out-of-bounds behavior in doing so.
- Macha 2y ago
  The American assumption is that cars are purchased new, and are recent enough to have integrated android auto/carplay.
  - bmelton 2y ago
    Or it means that the people who can afford fast phones and expensive internet are capable of buying a $300 car stereo with AA/CP capability. My 2001 Jeep Wrangler has both
    - yareal 2y ago
      My phone plan costs $14/month and could power music indefinitely at high speeds. Notably, it's something I already have and already pay for. $300 more for a new stereo is still a lot to many people. Plus, if I buy beater cars but put a nice stereo in them I'm at risk of theft. And I have to pay install fees again if I buy my next beater.
      - bmelton 2y ago
        This just further illustrates OP's point, of how very limited this market segment must be The buyers of this product are people who: - spend enough time in their car to want streaming audio - spend money on phone and internet - have a desire to improve their car to have streaming audio - but not enough to replace the car - and also not enough to replace the stereo - but definitely enough to pay money to add it - and are willing to remove the item they are paying for every time they leave the car to prevent its attractiveness to thieves

Normal_gaussian 2y ago

This is somewhat out of touch. Even a cheap car car costs £1000's up front (or £100's/mo financed), with recurring > £100 a month in insurances, fuel, and repairs. A spotify subscription costs £12/mo, and a family plan £20/mo. A more than good enough data plan is £10/mo. A more than good enough smartphone is £100. The vast majority of older car owners can easily afford a Spotify subscription.

Macha 2y ago

I guess the US has more of a culture of buying new cars but here in Ireland, basically everyone I know has some form of unlimited data and no one has a car from the last two years. Our new car sales are about 120,000/yr compared to a licensed vehicle count of 2,800,000, which implies that most cars get driven for 20 years before being retired, which from the distribution of cars I see on the road seems entirely plausible. Our registration plates have the year of first licensing printed prominently on them, and there are many 2008 cars still on the road. In short, the top ~10% might have modern cars. The top ~90% have unlimited data or data where the limits will not be reached by playing Spotify. I could see someone going "Hmm, that's 80% of the market we could sell this too".