5 ms·

> Very few countries in Europe takes in significant numbers of migrants Yes, but that's the biggest EU countries and they take a lot of migrants. Wikipedia say

by reisse 2y ago

> Very few countries in Europe takes in significant numbers of migrants Yes, but that's the biggest EU countries and they take a lot of migrants. Wikipedia says 18% of Germany population are first-generation immigrants. In comparison, in US it's only 14%. For the whole EU the number is around 11%. > generally Europe is very anti-immigrant. From what I know about "how to legally immigrate to US" vs "how to legally immigrate to Europe", the latter is much easier. The public sentiment might be there, but the laws say the other way.

fifilura 2y ago
What are the numbers if you compare Germany to California, including people moving in from other states of the US? Remember that EU has a free flow of work force, so I expect lots of those 18% will come from Netherlands or France. In Sweden at least, immigration was always biggest from neighboring countries (e.g. Finland/Norway)
- biztos 2y ago
  In Germany when one talks about “migration background” one is not talking about fellow EU citizens, nor about immigrants from the US, Australia, etc. But if you take the broader, official definition then you get something like 30% apparently: https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/zahlen-und-fakten/soziale-situation-in-deutschland/61646/bevoelkerung-mit-migrationshintergrund/ https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/zahlen-und-fakten/soziale-situ...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- reisse 2y ago
  > Remember that EU has a free flow of work force, so I expect lots of those 18% will come from Netherlands or France. What's the point for the native citizen of Netherlands or France in moving to Germany? The quality of life and salaries are similar, but the culture context is just so different between these countries. Completely different languages, different customs, etc. The numbers surely confirm that - the France is in the bottom of the list, and Netherlands are not even included. [1] Anyway, out of ~14 million foreigners in Germany only 5 million are from other EU states, and most of them (~3 million) are from Eastern European countries (Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia and Hungary). > In Sweden at least, immigration was always biggest from neighboring countries (e.g. Finland/Norway) There are less cultural differences between Sweden, Finland and Norway. At least they have more or less similar languages (ok, Finnish is different, but Sweden is also an official language in Finland). 1. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migration-Integration/Tables/foreigner-place-of-birth.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Popula...
  - fifilura 2y ago
    Right. It also highlights the extreme situation we have with Russias brutal and illegal invasion of Ukraine. Ukraine (oustide EU sofar) is number two on the list afger Turkey and also Russia is pretty far up.
Scarblac 2y ago
Is that maybe including immigrants from other EU countries? If so then that's a very misleading number to compare to the US's.
- reisse 2y ago
  Out of ~14 million foreigners in Germany only 5 million are from other EU states, and most of them (~3 million) are from Eastern European countries (Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia and Hungary). [1] Then, why is it misleading to compare Polish and Romanian immigrants to Germany with Mexican immigrants to US? 1. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migration-Integration/Tables/foreigner-place-of-birth.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Popula...
  - Scarblac 2y ago
    Because California probably has lots of immigrants from other US states too, and they should be counted too to make the numbers comparable.
geysersam 2y ago
> From what I know about "how to legally immigrate to US" vs "how to legally immigrate to Europe", the latter is much easier. I don't know what your experience is, but immigrating legally to the EU is not easy unless you're from a rich country like the US.
- kaashif 2y ago
  But immigrating to the US is difficult even if you're from a rich country like one in the EU.
  - mcny 2y ago
    > But immigrating to the US is difficult even if you're from a rich country like one in the EU. If you are thinking like my Portuguese friend complaining about how "hard" it was because it took six months to immigrate to the US, you have no idea how hard it is for other people to come to the US legally.
    - kaashif 2y ago
      No, I'm talking about being completely unable to immigrate because they can't find an employer to sponsor them. I'm talking about failing the H1B lottery for years and having to leave. I'm not talking about filing paperwork taking a long time. I agree it's harder if you're not from a developed country, but it's hard for a lot of people across the board.
- reisse 2y ago
  Never said it is easy, it's just much easier than immigrating to the US. Legally immigrating to the US (getting a residence permit) is either a matter of luck (lotteries), extraordinary skills, very long waiting lists, or a combination of these. On the contrary, immigrating to the EU is "just" finding a job on the local market and applying for some paperwork. And the EU does not discriminate you on the basis of the country where you've been born.
  - Propelloni 2y ago
Teever 2y ago
> Wikipedia says 18% of Germany population are first-generation immigrants. Are they counting EU citizens living in Germany?
canadianfella 2y ago
[dead]

by reisse 2y ago

fifilura 2y ago

What are the numbers if you compare Germany to California, including people moving in from other states of the US? Remember that EU has a free flow of work force, so I expect lots of those 18% will come from Netherlands or France. In Sweden at least, immigration was always biggest from neighboring countries (e.g. Finland/Norway)

biztos 2y ago
In Germany when one talks about “migration background” one is not talking about fellow EU citizens, nor about immigrants from the US, Australia, etc. But if you take the broader, official definition then you get something like 30% apparently: https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/zahlen-und-fakten/soziale-situation-in-deutschland/61646/bevoelkerung-mit-migrationshintergrund/ https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/zahlen-und-fakten/soziale-situ...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
reisse 2y ago
> Remember that EU has a free flow of work force, so I expect lots of those 18% will come from Netherlands or France. What's the point for the native citizen of Netherlands or France in moving to Germany? The quality of life and salaries are similar, but the culture context is just so different between these countries. Completely different languages, different customs, etc. The numbers surely confirm that - the France is in the bottom of the list, and Netherlands are not even included. [1] Anyway, out of ~14 million foreigners in Germany only 5 million are from other EU states, and most of them (~3 million) are from Eastern European countries (Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia and Hungary). > In Sweden at least, immigration was always biggest from neighboring countries (e.g. Finland/Norway) There are less cultural differences between Sweden, Finland and Norway. At least they have more or less similar languages (ok, Finnish is different, but Sweden is also an official language in Finland). 1. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migration-Integration/Tables/foreigner-place-of-birth.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Popula...
- fifilura 2y ago
  Right. It also highlights the extreme situation we have with Russias brutal and illegal invasion of Ukraine. Ukraine (oustide EU sofar) is number two on the list afger Turkey and also Russia is pretty far up.

Scarblac 2y ago

Is that maybe including immigrants from other EU countries? If so then that's a very misleading number to compare to the US's.

reisse 2y ago
Out of ~14 million foreigners in Germany only 5 million are from other EU states, and most of them (~3 million) are from Eastern European countries (Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia and Hungary). [1] Then, why is it misleading to compare Polish and Romanian immigrants to Germany with Mexican immigrants to US? 1. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migration-Integration/Tables/foreigner-place-of-birth.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Popula...
- Scarblac 2y ago
  Because California probably has lots of immigrants from other US states too, and they should be counted too to make the numbers comparable.

geysersam 2y ago

> From what I know about "how to legally immigrate to US" vs "how to legally immigrate to Europe", the latter is much easier. I don't know what your experience is, but immigrating legally to the EU is not easy unless you're from a rich country like the US.

kaashif 2y ago
But immigrating to the US is difficult even if you're from a rich country like one in the EU.
- mcny 2y ago
  > But immigrating to the US is difficult even if you're from a rich country like one in the EU. If you are thinking like my Portuguese friend complaining about how "hard" it was because it took six months to immigrate to the US, you have no idea how hard it is for other people to come to the US legally.
  - kaashif 2y ago
    No, I'm talking about being completely unable to immigrate because they can't find an employer to sponsor them. I'm talking about failing the H1B lottery for years and having to leave. I'm not talking about filing paperwork taking a long time. I agree it's harder if you're not from a developed country, but it's hard for a lot of people across the board.
reisse 2y ago
Never said it is easy, it's just much easier than immigrating to the US. Legally immigrating to the US (getting a residence permit) is either a matter of luck (lotteries), extraordinary skills, very long waiting lists, or a combination of these. On the contrary, immigrating to the EU is "just" finding a job on the local market and applying for some paperwork. And the EU does not discriminate you on the basis of the country where you've been born.
- Propelloni 2y ago

Teever 2y ago

> Wikipedia says 18% of Germany population are first-generation immigrants. Are they counting EU citizens living in Germany?

canadianfella 2y ago

[dead]