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>* Was attacked by Poland in ~1920. That's a fun way of saying that the USSR started a war of conquest against Poland.

vkou 2y ago
You're significantly oversimplifying the absolute clusterfuck of ethnic and ideological and territorial wars that sprung up in the immediate collapse of the Austro-Hungarian and Russian empires. Both of those states fought with the goal of expanding their borders to a pre-partition status - the USSR aimed to reclaim territories lost in Brest-Litovsk, Poland to something resembling the pre-partition commonwealth. Poland won the war, and made significant territorial gains, in exchange for recognition of Soviet Ukraine... And then 1939 happened.
- racional 2y ago
  Both of those states fought with the goal of expanding their borders to a pre-partition status - the USSR aimed to reclaim territories lost in Brest-Litovsk, Poland to something resembling the pre-partition commonwealth. This is actually gets a bit closer to a fair reading of the basic cause of the war. But it also glaringly contradicts what you just said previously ("Poland attacked the USSR in 1920, and that's it"¹). If you knew this was a gross (and misleading) oversimplification -- then why did you open with it? And in what year did the USSR come into being, again? Anyway, we're far removed from the topic of the original thread. If the two of you want to hash this out amongst yourselves, perhaps one of you can start a new top-level post on the topic, and see if you can get people to join you there. ¹ In the sense of «Вкусно – и точка»
  - vkou 2y ago
    You are correct. What I should have said (and couldn't find a way to put in a sentence) was that at some point in the Polish/Soviet war, Poland was fighting a successful offensive in the USSR, won the war, and made territorial gains. I suppose I should have said, well, that.
    - racional 2y ago
      "In areas that would later become part of the USSR". Anyway -- much better, thanks for clarifying.

vkou 2y ago

You're significantly oversimplifying the absolute clusterfuck of ethnic and ideological and territorial wars that sprung up in the immediate collapse of the Austro-Hungarian and Russian empires. Both of those states fought with the goal of expanding their borders to a pre-partition status - the USSR aimed to reclaim territories lost in Brest-Litovsk, Poland to something resembling the pre-partition commonwealth. Poland won the war, and made significant territorial gains, in exchange for recognition of Soviet Ukraine... And then 1939 happened.

racional 2y ago
Both of those states fought with the goal of expanding their borders to a pre-partition status - the USSR aimed to reclaim territories lost in Brest-Litovsk, Poland to something resembling the pre-partition commonwealth. This is actually gets a bit closer to a fair reading of the basic cause of the war. But it also glaringly contradicts what you just said previously ("Poland attacked the USSR in 1920, and that's it"¹). If you knew this was a gross (and misleading) oversimplification -- then why did you open with it? And in what year did the USSR come into being, again? Anyway, we're far removed from the topic of the original thread. If the two of you want to hash this out amongst yourselves, perhaps one of you can start a new top-level post on the topic, and see if you can get people to join you there. ¹ In the sense of «Вкусно – и точка»
- vkou 2y ago
  You are correct. What I should have said (and couldn't find a way to put in a sentence) was that at some point in the Polish/Soviet war, Poland was fighting a successful offensive in the USSR, won the war, and made territorial gains. I suppose I should have said, well, that.
  - racional 2y ago
    "In areas that would later become part of the USSR". Anyway -- much better, thanks for clarifying.