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I find hilarious the fact that we need to buy & install a windowing tool because the native OS window system has been broken for the past 40 years. Can't they

I find hilarious the fact that we need to buy & install a windowing tool because the native OS window system has been broken for the past 40 years. Can't they just copy what windows and linux are doing?

0x2a 2y ago
They copied it a little bit, but it's very mouse oriented (option-click the green zoom button to snap windows to left/right). Another option for this is Hammerspoon, e.g.: https://github.com/scottwhudson/Lunette https://github.com/scottwhudson/Lunette
- jwells89 2y ago
  > They copied it a little bit, but it's very mouse oriented (option-click the green zoom button to snap windows to left/right). Moom, which is the tool I prefer, similarly shows a popover when hovering over the green button. Personally I prefer this sort of approach and wish it could be replicated on other OSes. The Aero Snap way of doing things with the noisy “should I snap here” animations are annoying and too easy to accidentally trigger.
wyclif 2y ago
I tend to agree that the functionality you see in Rectangle or Magnet should be native. Window placement shouldn't be a third party app. But whenever I've asked people at Apple about this, the response has been "Well, Apple is historically just very opinionated about window placement and settings." The overall vibe was "Apple knows best."
- thefz 2y ago
  You are using it wrong. See, in the intended setup, windows simply don't open. You don't even need a computer, just wire Apple some thousands regularly.
- thiht 2y ago
  Being opinionated is good, but at some point you have to realize when you went the wrong path. Window management on macOS is terrible, period. This isn't just force of habit or "just another way to do", it sucks. Even command+tab is terrible, it doesn't even browse all the open windows but the open app, which is a completely irrelevant distinction, I have to install AltTab because of this.
  - danaris 2y ago
    This is your opinion. The way macOS does window management is internally consistent, and for those of us who have used it for decades, it works perfectly well. Just because Windows chose to do it a different way, and Linux copied Windows because it had a monopoly on the desktop, doesn't mean what macOS is doing is bad. If you don't like it, you don't have to use macOS. (Or, you can install the exact utilities various people are mentioning to force macOS to act like Windows.)
    - thiht 2y ago
      No, no, and no. The way macOS handles split screen is objectively bad, that's not an opinion. It's clunky, slow, not very discoverable, not intuitive, and is painful to use because it requires using the fullscreen mode. Windows does it a certain way and it's great and natural. Linux desktop environment copied it not because it's Windows, but because it's good. Why is there no desktop environment copying macOS window handling if it's just as good? Because it's not, it sucks. Some things on macOS are just different, like having the red/green/yellow button on the left instead of on the right on Windows. Neither is objectively good or bad, just different. But that I cannot take a window, drag and drop it to the side to make it take half the screen size is bad. It's an obvious feature nowadays and macOS should handle it natively. They don't even have to remove the way they do it currently, because it has its use (I have a permanently open full screen/split screen with my email client and Slack, it's great for that), just add a new mechanism that works better for quick split screen. Same with command+tab, it sucks that it doesn't work with open windows (eg if I have 2 open Firefox windows, only 1 will be displayed). It used to work like that so I'm ok with macOS keeping it as a default, but WHY don't they add a setting to do what people expect? Or why don't they add option+tab as a shortcut with this behaviour? I've used macOS, Windows, and various Linux DEs (KDE, XFCE, Gnome) extensively in my life and all of them have good and bad concepts. This is not a blind spot issue, just that some UI concepts work better than other, and the correct thing to do is to adapt.
- voisin 2y ago
  But what’s the opinion? That people should constantly be dragging windows around the screen to get at different things?
  - wyclif 2y ago
    The opinion seems to be "you shouldn't want an easily resized split screen or snap windows to the edge of the screen."
    - voisin 2y ago
      For a company with a philosophy of order, purposefulness, and minimalism, this seems odd.
      - godelski 2y ago
        You know what would be cool? Is if we could drag a window so far off screen that a user will never be able to grab it once they let go - Apple, probably
  - HDThoreaun 2y ago
    Mac OS is designed to use workspaces. The idea is you have main windows in fullscreen and use the trackpad swipe to switch between virtual desktops. Basically they never want you to move windows at all. Maybe one of the virutal desktops has your notes and finder and other smaller apps
simula67 2y ago
Is there a Mac app to copy Windows' windowing behavior? I want different virtual desktops to behave like they are different computers with a shared clipboard, i.e., I don't want to see apps from other virtual desktops showing up on 'Alt-Tab', dock bar to show all open apps, etc.
- whatever1 2y ago
  A fellow HN member recommended this https://contexts.co/ https://contexts.co/. It is amazing feature-wise, but it has some annoying bugs and it seems abandonware (last update Aug 2022).
  - 0x2a 2y ago
    One alternative for window switching is Alfred: https://alfred.app/workflows/alfredapp/window-switcher/ https://alfred.app/workflows/alfredapp/window-switcher/ Workflows for browser tabs aren't as up-to-date though: https://alfred.app/workflows/epilande/browser-tabs/ https://alfred.app/workflows/epilande/browser-tabs/ https://github.com/deanishe/alfred-firefox https://github.com/deanishe/alfred-firefox
nray 2y ago
And the bar icons ... in the end I just bought Bartender to cope with the notch.
- 0x2a 2y ago
  Bartender desperately needs to be Sherlocked. Menu bar management for third party apps on macOS is untenable without it or something similar.
vundercind 2y ago
I like Spectacle better than anything I’ve seen on Windows or Linux, and I’ll take installing it once then never thinking about it again over what it takes to get a tolerable keyboard layout & shortcuts on other platforms.
namdnay 2y ago
Yeah I have to agree with this. MacOS is unusable on a big screen without Rectangle, it’s silly
librasteve 2y ago
i suspect that microsoft has patented window snapping
SwiftyBug 2y ago
No doubt that window tiling should be a native feature. But that's not even my biggest gripe with macOS. You simply cannot disable animations. Moving between workspaces is so slow because there is a 300ms transition. There is an accessibility reduced motion settings, but all it does is replace the transition from a slide to a fade in/out. The only solution I could find is to keep all the windows at full width and height in a single workspace. But guess what? CMD+Tab only iterates over the open apps, not their windows. So I need to install yet another third party app to be able to navigate between open windows. I've always been kind of an Apple fanboy, but I've been recently finding myself in this novel situation where I'm dreaming of a System76 laptop so I can just run PopOS. When I first started using macOS 15 years ago I was all about the slick UI animations. Now I just want an unobtrusive OS that's fast. Heck, I've been even flirting with the idea of not even having a desktop environment at all. A window manager should be enough. Maybe I'm just getting old?
- ossusermivami 2y ago
  i agree with you, one of the reason i switched back to linux (fedora)
sys_64738 2y ago
Rectangle is free.

0x2a 2y ago

They copied it a little bit, but it's very mouse oriented (option-click the green zoom button to snap windows to left/right). Another option for this is Hammerspoon, e.g.: https://github.com/scottwhudson/Lunette https://github.com/scottwhudson/Lunette

jwells89 2y ago
> They copied it a little bit, but it's very mouse oriented (option-click the green zoom button to snap windows to left/right). Moom, which is the tool I prefer, similarly shows a popover when hovering over the green button. Personally I prefer this sort of approach and wish it could be replicated on other OSes. The Aero Snap way of doing things with the noisy “should I snap here” animations are annoying and too easy to accidentally trigger.

wyclif 2y ago

I tend to agree that the functionality you see in Rectangle or Magnet should be native. Window placement shouldn't be a third party app. But whenever I've asked people at Apple about this, the response has been "Well, Apple is historically just very opinionated about window placement and settings." The overall vibe was "Apple knows best."

thefz 2y ago
You are using it wrong. See, in the intended setup, windows simply don't open. You don't even need a computer, just wire Apple some thousands regularly.
thiht 2y ago
Being opinionated is good, but at some point you have to realize when you went the wrong path. Window management on macOS is terrible, period. This isn't just force of habit or "just another way to do", it sucks. Even command+tab is terrible, it doesn't even browse all the open windows but the open app, which is a completely irrelevant distinction, I have to install AltTab because of this.
- danaris 2y ago
  This is your opinion. The way macOS does window management is internally consistent, and for those of us who have used it for decades, it works perfectly well. Just because Windows chose to do it a different way, and Linux copied Windows because it had a monopoly on the desktop, doesn't mean what macOS is doing is bad. If you don't like it, you don't have to use macOS. (Or, you can install the exact utilities various people are mentioning to force macOS to act like Windows.)
  - thiht 2y ago
    No, no, and no. The way macOS handles split screen is objectively bad, that's not an opinion. It's clunky, slow, not very discoverable, not intuitive, and is painful to use because it requires using the fullscreen mode. Windows does it a certain way and it's great and natural. Linux desktop environment copied it not because it's Windows, but because it's good. Why is there no desktop environment copying macOS window handling if it's just as good? Because it's not, it sucks. Some things on macOS are just different, like having the red/green/yellow button on the left instead of on the right on Windows. Neither is objectively good or bad, just different. But that I cannot take a window, drag and drop it to the side to make it take half the screen size is bad. It's an obvious feature nowadays and macOS should handle it natively. They don't even have to remove the way they do it currently, because it has its use (I have a permanently open full screen/split screen with my email client and Slack, it's great for that), just add a new mechanism that works better for quick split screen. Same with command+tab, it sucks that it doesn't work with open windows (eg if I have 2 open Firefox windows, only 1 will be displayed). It used to work like that so I'm ok with macOS keeping it as a default, but WHY don't they add a setting to do what people expect? Or why don't they add option+tab as a shortcut with this behaviour? I've used macOS, Windows, and various Linux DEs (KDE, XFCE, Gnome) extensively in my life and all of them have good and bad concepts. This is not a blind spot issue, just that some UI concepts work better than other, and the correct thing to do is to adapt.
voisin 2y ago
But what’s the opinion? That people should constantly be dragging windows around the screen to get at different things?
- wyclif 2y ago
  The opinion seems to be "you shouldn't want an easily resized split screen or snap windows to the edge of the screen."
  - voisin 2y ago
    For a company with a philosophy of order, purposefulness, and minimalism, this seems odd.
    - godelski 2y ago
      You know what would be cool? Is if we could drag a window so far off screen that a user will never be able to grab it once they let go - Apple, probably
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  Mac OS is designed to use workspaces. The idea is you have main windows in fullscreen and use the trackpad swipe to switch between virtual desktops. Basically they never want you to move windows at all. Maybe one of the virutal desktops has your notes and finder and other smaller apps

simula67 2y ago

Is there a Mac app to copy Windows' windowing behavior? I want different virtual desktops to behave like they are different computers with a shared clipboard, i.e., I don't want to see apps from other virtual desktops showing up on 'Alt-Tab', dock bar to show all open apps, etc.

whatever1 2y ago
A fellow HN member recommended this https://contexts.co/ https://contexts.co/. It is amazing feature-wise, but it has some annoying bugs and it seems abandonware (last update Aug 2022).
- 0x2a 2y ago
  One alternative for window switching is Alfred: https://alfred.app/workflows/alfredapp/window-switcher/ https://alfred.app/workflows/alfredapp/window-switcher/ Workflows for browser tabs aren't as up-to-date though: https://alfred.app/workflows/epilande/browser-tabs/ https://alfred.app/workflows/epilande/browser-tabs/ https://github.com/deanishe/alfred-firefox https://github.com/deanishe/alfred-firefox

nray 2y ago

And the bar icons ... in the end I just bought Bartender to cope with the notch.

0x2a 2y ago
Bartender desperately needs to be Sherlocked. Menu bar management for third party apps on macOS is untenable without it or something similar.

vundercind 2y ago

I like Spectacle better than anything I’ve seen on Windows or Linux, and I’ll take installing it once then never thinking about it again over what it takes to get a tolerable keyboard layout & shortcuts on other platforms.

namdnay 2y ago

Yeah I have to agree with this. MacOS is unusable on a big screen without Rectangle, it’s silly

librasteve 2y ago

i suspect that microsoft has patented window snapping

SwiftyBug 2y ago

No doubt that window tiling should be a native feature. But that's not even my biggest gripe with macOS. You simply cannot disable animations. Moving between workspaces is so slow because there is a 300ms transition. There is an accessibility reduced motion settings, but all it does is replace the transition from a slide to a fade in/out. The only solution I could find is to keep all the windows at full width and height in a single workspace. But guess what? CMD+Tab only iterates over the open apps, not their windows. So I need to install yet another third party app to be able to navigate between open windows. I've always been kind of an Apple fanboy, but I've been recently finding myself in this novel situation where I'm dreaming of a System76 laptop so I can just run PopOS. When I first started using macOS 15 years ago I was all about the slick UI animations. Now I just want an unobtrusive OS that's fast. Heck, I've been even flirting with the idea of not even having a desktop environment at all. A window manager should be enough. Maybe I'm just getting old?

ossusermivami 2y ago
i agree with you, one of the reason i switched back to linux (fedora)

sys_64738 2y ago

Rectangle is free.