3 ms·

Wi-Fi devices set to become object sensors by 2024 via IEEE 802.11bf standard

26 points by transpute 2y ago

transpute 2y ago
Wi-Fi Sensing (802.11bf) was scheduled for WiFi 7, which is present in recently announced "AI PCs". It works best with an on-device "AI" NPU that can perform inference on WiFi radar signals reflected from local humans and objects, to infer surrounding movement, breathing, keystrokes, location & more. It wasn't mentioned in recent device announcements, so perhaps the device firmware and algorithms are awaiting regulatory approval? Intel 2023 demo, https://community.intel.com/t5/Blogs/Tech-Innovation/Client/Wi-Fi-Sensing-Adding-Sensing-Capability-To-Intel-Wireless/post/1416624 https://community.intel.com/t5/Blogs/Tech-Innovation/Client/... > the first commercial Wi-Fi sensing feature of Wake-on-approach and Walk-away lock on Intel’s Raptor Lake platform. This feature detects when a person approaches the PC so as to bring it out of sleep and get it ready for user input by the time the person reaches the device ... Intel Labs will demonstrate an early prototype of breathing detection .. The solution detects the rhythmic change in CSI due to chest movement during breathing. It then uses that information to detect the presence of a person near a device, even if the person is sitting silently without moving. The respiration rates gathered by this technology could play an important role in stress detection and other wellness applications. Qualcomm 2023 demo, https://youtube.com/watch?v=-HYTt1doRRY https://youtube.com/watch?v=-HYTt1doRRY > Working with China Unicom and ZTE, Qualcomm showed centimeter-level positioning in complex industrial facilities. Building on precise positioning, RF sensing uses changes in radio propagation to detect and track device-free objects. https://hnrankings.info/40458766/ https://hnrankings.info/40458766/
- bavell 2y ago
  Now wire me up with a Neuralink and connect me to OpenBlockchainCorp LLC!
  - barfbagginus 2y ago
    Instead of all that, I have the new BCI where I shit my pants and walk around all day with shit in my pants. It's the Brown Caca Interface.
- outworlder 2y ago
  That sounds eerily like that scene in one of the Batman movies. There are probably some great applications like presence sensors. And some... very nefarious.
- cerealport 2y ago
  [dead]
- tommiegannert 2y ago
  > the first commercial Wi-Fi sensing feature of Wake-on-approach and Walk-away lock on Intel’s Raptor Lake platform. This feature detects when a person approaches the PC so as to bring it out of sleep and get it ready for user input by the time the person reaches the device First spending time and money reducing stand-by power consumption. Then realizing we really can't be bothered pressing (very power-efficient) buttons, but need both WiFi and NPUs constantly on. What's the power consumption of this feature?
  - transpute 2y ago
    > What's the power consumption of this feature Good question.
repelsteeltje 2y ago
> SENS systems that are apparently being developed, "will create the 'perfect storm' for the introduction into the market of groundbreaking applications that we cannot even imagine today." Hmmm. Perfect storm sounds somewhat ... gloomy. I suppose we should ask ourselves (in chorus): what could possibly go wrong?!
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
hello_computer 2y ago
no thank you
moffkalast 2y ago
It's really interesting that people seem to be getting [0] such good results from wifi imaging while in practice (and my personal experience at least) bluetooth which operates in the same band can't even muster a reliable 2D angle of arrival with a 6 inch array of 5 antennas. I highly doubt any of this will work very well outside lab conditions. [0] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.00250 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.00250
- transpute 2y ago
  On-device NPU silicon allows AI to increase accuracy, there are hundreds of published papers demonstrating steady progress over the past decade, which are informing the IEEE WiFi protocol standard. 2024 "AI PCs" with Wi-Fi 7 can likely enable WiFi sensing via firmware upgrade.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mlhpdx 2y ago
As someone who’s worked in this industry this frightens the bejesus out of me. These are the same folks that brought you advertising injection and name products like “revenue extraction gateway”. It will 100% be abused.

26 points by transpute 2y ago

Wi-Fi Sensing (802.11bf) was scheduled for WiFi 7, which is present in recently announced "AI PCs". It works best with an on-device "AI" NPU that can perform inference on WiFi radar signals reflected from local humans and objects, to infer surrounding movement, breathing, keystrokes, location & more. It wasn't mentioned in recent device announcements, so perhaps the device firmware and algorithms are awaiting regulatory approval? Intel 2023 demo, https://community.intel.com/t5/Blogs/Tech-Innovation/Client/Wi-Fi-Sensing-Adding-Sensing-Capability-To-Intel-Wireless/post/1416624 https://community.intel.com/t5/Blogs/Tech-Innovation/Client/... > the first commercial Wi-Fi sensing feature of Wake-on-approach and Walk-away lock on Intel’s Raptor Lake platform. This feature detects when a person approaches the PC so as to bring it out of sleep and get it ready for user input by the time the person reaches the device ... Intel Labs will demonstrate an early prototype of breathing detection .. The solution detects the rhythmic change in CSI due to chest movement during breathing. It then uses that information to detect the presence of a person near a device, even if the person is sitting silently without moving. The respiration rates gathered by this technology could play an important role in stress detection and other wellness applications. Qualcomm 2023 demo, https://youtube.com/watch?v=-HYTt1doRRY https://youtube.com/watch?v=-HYTt1doRRY > Working with China Unicom and ZTE, Qualcomm showed centimeter-level positioning in complex industrial facilities. Building on precise positioning, RF sensing uses changes in radio propagation to detect and track device-free objects. https://hnrankings.info/40458766/ https://hnrankings.info/40458766/

bavell 2y ago
Now wire me up with a Neuralink and connect me to OpenBlockchainCorp LLC!
- barfbagginus 2y ago
  Instead of all that, I have the new BCI where I shit my pants and walk around all day with shit in my pants. It's the Brown Caca Interface.
outworlder 2y ago
That sounds eerily like that scene in one of the Batman movies. There are probably some great applications like presence sensors. And some... very nefarious.
cerealport 2y ago
[dead]
tommiegannert 2y ago
> the first commercial Wi-Fi sensing feature of Wake-on-approach and Walk-away lock on Intel’s Raptor Lake platform. This feature detects when a person approaches the PC so as to bring it out of sleep and get it ready for user input by the time the person reaches the device First spending time and money reducing stand-by power consumption. Then realizing we really can't be bothered pressing (very power-efficient) buttons, but need both WiFi and NPUs constantly on. What's the power consumption of this feature?
- transpute 2y ago
  > What's the power consumption of this feature Good question.

repelsteeltje 2y ago

> SENS systems that are apparently being developed, "will create the 'perfect storm' for the introduction into the market of groundbreaking applications that we cannot even imagine today." Hmmm. Perfect storm sounds somewhat ... gloomy. I suppose we should ask ourselves (in chorus): what could possibly go wrong?!

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

hello_computer 2y ago

no thank you

moffkalast 2y ago

It's really interesting that people seem to be getting [0] such good results from wifi imaging while in practice (and my personal experience at least) bluetooth which operates in the same band can't even muster a reliable 2D angle of arrival with a 6 inch array of 5 antennas. I highly doubt any of this will work very well outside lab conditions. [0] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.00250 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.00250

transpute 2y ago
On-device NPU silicon allows AI to increase accuracy, there are hundreds of published papers demonstrating steady progress over the past decade, which are informing the IEEE WiFi protocol standard. 2024 "AI PCs" with Wi-Fi 7 can likely enable WiFi sensing via firmware upgrade.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

mlhpdx 2y ago

As someone who’s worked in this industry this frightens the bejesus out of me. These are the same folks that brought you advertising injection and name products like “revenue extraction gateway”. It will 100% be abused.