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The comment for the change contains a note of bitterness: > I have two goals in this change: To allow developers in restrictive but technically incompetent org

The comment for the change contains a note of bitterness: > I have two goals in this change: To allow developers in restrictive but technically incompetent organizations to continue to use iTerm2. That is, they disallow anything that could potentially exfiltrate data, but don't have their act together enough to implement MDM. So that people who hate AI can feel at ease that no AI will happen by accident without having to dig into the weeds of the implementation. https://gitlab.com/gnachman/iterm2/-/issues/11470#note_1917647951 https://gitlab.com/gnachman/iterm2/-/issues/11470#note_19176...

rottencupcakes 2y ago
[flagged]
- ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
  I'm sure he's tired from the horde of idiots angry that he implemented an entirely optional feature.
  - asdajksah2123 2y ago
    Entirely optional features that have a history of not becoming optional anymore in many other applications and quite evidently can easily be installed as a plugin instead. Further, why in the world would you include a completely optional feature that runs afoul of many companies' software policies? And will be blocked by many companies even if it doesn't run afoul of their policies because nearly every competently run company will inspect software that claims to have AI features to understand the extent of the AI integration, but a significant portion of them will choose not to do that analysis for what's a fairly niche software that not only has many alternatives but is an alternative to an OSX built in feature and would block many of your users from using the application. Even if you disagree with the ideological dissensions, and even if you disagree with the slippery slope argument, why would you grumble about the practical scenario which would block your users from using the application. Especially when you have a fairly easy alternative of packaging it in a plugin.
    - galad87 2y ago
      I wonder how those companies will deal with the upcoming AI features in Windows and macOS.
      - leetcrew 2y ago
        apple and microsoft have historically provided ways of turning off features that their corporate customers don't want. I doubt this will be any different.
        galad87 2y ago
        iTerm AI feature was off by default and you had to manually insert a valid key, but it seems it was still an issue.
        wpm 2y ago
        The change notes nor the UI do not imply this. All this needs was a single checkbox “Disable OpenAI Integration” or codecierge or whatever it’s called. A single, unequivocal “this is not enabled” signal to the user who does not want or cannot what this feature enabled.
        adamomada 2y ago
        But how is that different from a UI which is the equivalent of a “enable openai integration” checkbox?? You needed the word “Disable” in there?
        wpm 2y ago
        Yes? Or maybe my CISO does? These things should be as unambiguous as the "webcam is on" LED.
- mmastrac 2y ago
  Ask yourself: is this really a productive comment? You've got an open-source author that has put a lot of effort into providing something people can use, for free, and your comment above is the toxicity they get in response? Are you really helping the world of open-source with this type of response?
  - rottencupcakes 2y ago
    Yes, you’re absolutely right. I wasn’t aware of the drama and conflict behind this and read his press release in a vacuum. It didn’t add anything and only added more negativity to this conflict.
- Me1000 2y ago
  He actually was a joy to work with. George is an awesome human.
- fallingsquirrel 2y ago
  A grizzled veteran, bemused at the irrational inanity of the world around him, yet still highly effective, listening to his users, and shipping software used by millions. I agree, as long as you're not incompetent, I bet he'd be a blast to work with.
- kjksf 2y ago
  I actually worked with George and he is about the nicest person there is. This is not sarcasm or double speak. He really was a great guy to work with. Now he's spending his free time working almost daily on free, open source gift that is iTerm. The issue here really is the hysteria of people who complain about it. It's something you had to configure by entering an API key and it wouldn't do anything if you didn't. Didn't stop people being wrong about what happens and refusing to accept they were wrong even when it was explained to them they were wrong. You try to spend your free time providing great software to people, add a useful people and have a stream of ignorant complains and hate rain down on you. I'm sure you would be all sainty about.
  - adamomada 2y ago
    I really feel bad for the guy but I sincerely doubt it’s the first time he’s learned that “no good deed goes unpunished”.
- rockemsockem 2y ago
  Competent people call out incompetence. I'm sure they actually are.
madeofpalk 2y ago
I mean, it's true. The issue was full of people supposedly reporting that iTerm would be banned software because.... ??? I'm not sure what the matrix of organisations is that would ban a sideline feature like this through policy only, and not through technical means like MDN.
irskep 2y ago
Those words were definitely written through gritted teeth, but it seems to me he's being very literal. The second point in particular is exactly what the anti-AI-feature people seem to be asking for (and they are reasonable for asking for it).
- rottencupcakes 2y ago
  AI is acting as a catalyst here to get people into flame war mode. The issue here is the existence of a terminal feature that can send your commands to a 3rd party server. It could have no AI whatsoever; it is reasonable to not want this in an app that you might paste secret keys into. Do the people who don’t like this feature have the same standards for ever app they use? Probably not, they’re probably being a little hyperbolic, but it sounds like a reasonable request.
  - glhaynes 2y ago
    The issue here is the existence of a terminal feature that can send your commands to a 3rd party server. With not many more characters than are needed for an API key, I could write a script in the very terminal provided by iTerm2 that sends all my commands to a 3rd party server!
  - AlexandrB 2y ago
    > The issue here is the existence of a terminal feature that can send your commands to a 3rd party server. That's called SSH.
- notatoad 2y ago
  > and they are reasonable for asking for it are they? their position is basically that they don't trust iterm2 to work properly, but only in regard to this specific setting. if you don't trust iterm2 to work, don't use it. if you do trust it to work, you should be able to trust that the ai feature that's off by default won't magically turn itself on.
  - Suzuran 2y ago
_fat_santa 2y ago
> To allow developers in restrictive but technically incompetent organizations to continue to use iTerm2 I mean sure it was a brash way of putting it but he's not wrong. I contract with an org that basically shuts off access to anything that is in any way related to AI, we can't even visit the OpenAI website on our computers. If this feature was part of core iTerm2 then 100% they would have banned the use of iTerm.
- xemdetia 2y ago
  People really underestimate how much time is available to qualify whether a feature that on paper that sounds problematic is benign or functionally helpless without $XYZ other things by a security team. Saying use MDM to 'fix' it is dev time they might not have, and the only ethical thing they can do is remove the new unknown risks from their list of risks. Much like your SLAs are not my SLAs your risks are not my risks. iterm2 inserting a mechanism to talk to a new class of component is not a minor change.
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  So they're going to take away MS Office, Windows, Google and Bing too are they? With iTerm it's not even using AI unless you give it an API key, so the whole thing is a storm in a teacup.
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    Microsoft knows its customers, and presumably provides a method for enterprises to nuke the 'AI' features. A lot of companies absolutely would not adopt an Office update with mandatory LLM.
fredsted 2y ago
I understand the frustration. But they should have just closed this issue to begin with. Waste of time.
MisterBastahrd 2y ago
Being unable to see the technical and organizational problems with a baked-in API driven feature that many people don't want is its own form of incompetence.
rockemsockem 2y ago
I love this comment so much.
xyst 2y ago
This whole fiasco made me rethink why I am using iterm2 in the first place. Have switched to alacritty. It’s basic but it does its job. It’s a terminal. Highly performant, no unnecessary bloat compared to iterm2. Have moved my monthly donations away from iterm2.

rottencupcakes 2y ago

[flagged]

ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
I'm sure he's tired from the horde of idiots angry that he implemented an entirely optional feature.
- asdajksah2123 2y ago
  Entirely optional features that have a history of not becoming optional anymore in many other applications and quite evidently can easily be installed as a plugin instead. Further, why in the world would you include a completely optional feature that runs afoul of many companies' software policies? And will be blocked by many companies even if it doesn't run afoul of their policies because nearly every competently run company will inspect software that claims to have AI features to understand the extent of the AI integration, but a significant portion of them will choose not to do that analysis for what's a fairly niche software that not only has many alternatives but is an alternative to an OSX built in feature and would block many of your users from using the application. Even if you disagree with the ideological dissensions, and even if you disagree with the slippery slope argument, why would you grumble about the practical scenario which would block your users from using the application. Especially when you have a fairly easy alternative of packaging it in a plugin.
  - galad87 2y ago
    I wonder how those companies will deal with the upcoming AI features in Windows and macOS.
    - leetcrew 2y ago
      apple and microsoft have historically provided ways of turning off features that their corporate customers don't want. I doubt this will be any different.
      - galad87 2y ago
        iTerm AI feature was off by default and you had to manually insert a valid key, but it seems it was still an issue.
        wpm 2y ago
        The change notes nor the UI do not imply this. All this needs was a single checkbox “Disable OpenAI Integration” or codecierge or whatever it’s called. A single, unequivocal “this is not enabled” signal to the user who does not want or cannot what this feature enabled.
        adamomada 2y ago
        But how is that different from a UI which is the equivalent of a “enable openai integration” checkbox?? You needed the word “Disable” in there?
        wpm 2y ago
        Yes? Or maybe my CISO does? These things should be as unambiguous as the "webcam is on" LED.
mmastrac 2y ago
Ask yourself: is this really a productive comment? You've got an open-source author that has put a lot of effort into providing something people can use, for free, and your comment above is the toxicity they get in response? Are you really helping the world of open-source with this type of response?
- rottencupcakes 2y ago
  Yes, you’re absolutely right. I wasn’t aware of the drama and conflict behind this and read his press release in a vacuum. It didn’t add anything and only added more negativity to this conflict.
Me1000 2y ago
He actually was a joy to work with. George is an awesome human.
fallingsquirrel 2y ago
A grizzled veteran, bemused at the irrational inanity of the world around him, yet still highly effective, listening to his users, and shipping software used by millions. I agree, as long as you're not incompetent, I bet he'd be a blast to work with.
kjksf 2y ago
I actually worked with George and he is about the nicest person there is. This is not sarcasm or double speak. He really was a great guy to work with. Now he's spending his free time working almost daily on free, open source gift that is iTerm. The issue here really is the hysteria of people who complain about it. It's something you had to configure by entering an API key and it wouldn't do anything if you didn't. Didn't stop people being wrong about what happens and refusing to accept they were wrong even when it was explained to them they were wrong. You try to spend your free time providing great software to people, add a useful people and have a stream of ignorant complains and hate rain down on you. I'm sure you would be all sainty about.
- adamomada 2y ago
  I really feel bad for the guy but I sincerely doubt it’s the first time he’s learned that “no good deed goes unpunished”.
rockemsockem 2y ago
Competent people call out incompetence. I'm sure they actually are.

madeofpalk 2y ago

I mean, it's true. The issue was full of people supposedly reporting that iTerm would be banned software because.... ??? I'm not sure what the matrix of organisations is that would ban a sideline feature like this through policy only, and not through technical means like MDN.

irskep 2y ago

Those words were definitely written through gritted teeth, but it seems to me he's being very literal. The second point in particular is exactly what the anti-AI-feature people seem to be asking for (and they are reasonable for asking for it).

rottencupcakes 2y ago
AI is acting as a catalyst here to get people into flame war mode. The issue here is the existence of a terminal feature that can send your commands to a 3rd party server. It could have no AI whatsoever; it is reasonable to not want this in an app that you might paste secret keys into. Do the people who don’t like this feature have the same standards for ever app they use? Probably not, they’re probably being a little hyperbolic, but it sounds like a reasonable request.
- glhaynes 2y ago
  The issue here is the existence of a terminal feature that can send your commands to a 3rd party server. With not many more characters than are needed for an API key, I could write a script in the very terminal provided by iTerm2 that sends all my commands to a 3rd party server!
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  > The issue here is the existence of a terminal feature that can send your commands to a 3rd party server. That's called SSH.
notatoad 2y ago
> and they are reasonable for asking for it are they? their position is basically that they don't trust iterm2 to work properly, but only in regard to this specific setting. if you don't trust iterm2 to work, don't use it. if you do trust it to work, you should be able to trust that the ai feature that's off by default won't magically turn itself on.
- Suzuran 2y ago

_fat_santa 2y ago

> To allow developers in restrictive but technically incompetent organizations to continue to use iTerm2 I mean sure it was a brash way of putting it but he's not wrong. I contract with an org that basically shuts off access to anything that is in any way related to AI, we can't even visit the OpenAI website on our computers. If this feature was part of core iTerm2 then 100% they would have banned the use of iTerm.

xemdetia 2y ago
People really underestimate how much time is available to qualify whether a feature that on paper that sounds problematic is benign or functionally helpless without $XYZ other things by a security team. Saying use MDM to 'fix' it is dev time they might not have, and the only ethical thing they can do is remove the new unknown risks from their list of risks. Much like your SLAs are not my SLAs your risks are not my risks. iterm2 inserting a mechanism to talk to a new class of component is not a minor change.
mike_hearn 2y ago
So they're going to take away MS Office, Windows, Google and Bing too are they? With iTerm it's not even using AI unless you give it an API key, so the whole thing is a storm in a teacup.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Microsoft knows its customers, and presumably provides a method for enterprises to nuke the 'AI' features. A lot of companies absolutely would not adopt an Office update with mandatory LLM.

fredsted 2y ago

I understand the frustration. But they should have just closed this issue to begin with. Waste of time.

MisterBastahrd 2y ago

Being unable to see the technical and organizational problems with a baked-in API driven feature that many people don't want is its own form of incompetence.

rockemsockem 2y ago

I love this comment so much.

xyst 2y ago

This whole fiasco made me rethink why I am using iterm2 in the first place. Have switched to alacritty. It’s basic but it does its job. It’s a terminal. Highly performant, no unnecessary bloat compared to iterm2. Have moved my monthly donations away from iterm2.